UFOs (UAPs): Explanations?

Discussion in 'UFOs, Ghosts and Monsters' started by Magical Realist, Oct 10, 2017.

  1. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    This thread has 260 pages and 5200 posts at the time of writing.

    I told you previously that I will not be doing your homework for you. Go look through the thread for yourself. I have already read the whole sorry thing through once. That's quite enough.

    Oh, and by the way, don't think I didn't notice where you failed to show that anything I wrote was incorrect. Again.
     
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  3. Q-reeus Banned Valued Senior Member

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    Best to just leave that post as is. A monument to James R's signature style. Ditto for the next one.
     
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  5. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    I took at look at the interview with Fravor. There are two parts, amounting to about 80 minutes of talk time. Fravor's eyewitness account takes up, I'd say, approximately 10 minutes of that 80 minutes, with the rest of the interview talking about other incidents in which Fravor wasn't personally involved, background information about Fravor himself and other stuff.

    Fravor's story, boiled down to what he actually saw himself, amounts to a report of seeing an object that he couldn't identify, accompanied by some guesswork as to how far it was away from his plane he thought it was at various times. He says that the object never appeared on the radar or any of the other instruments in his plane.

    There's really no way to tell what Fravor actually saw, as opposed to what he thinks he saw.

    And that's about it.

    Fravor himself comes across in the interview as reasonably level-headed, although it is clear that he believes that the object he saw was intelligently controlled and exhibited extremely unusual flight characteristics. Both of those beliefs are based on inferences that he has obviously drawn about what he was looking at. Since there's no independent evidence about what he saw that we can compare and contrast with, that's about as far as we can go with Fravor's account of the incident itself.

    Overall then, Fravor's account should not convince anybody who is thinking critically about it that the "tic tac" he reports seeing was an alien spacecraft, ghosts from Mars, or something controlled by extradimensional pixies.

    The fact that Fravor's account has been blown up into this major thing by UFO nuts really says more about the UFO nuts themselves than it says about the incident in question.

    One interesting titbit is that Fravor says in the interview that he has only personally talked to around 20 journalists or other people directly about his experience. In other words, everything you see online about Fravor is based on one or more of those 20-or-so interviews Fravor did - most of which took place years ago and which concerned an incident that he is no longer able to remember clearly, having take place 15 or more years ago.
     
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  7. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    You didn't leave it, though, did you? You felt like it was important to post your personal review of it. Why? You had nothing useful to add, as usual, and - as usual - you could find nothing you could refute in it.
     
  8. Q-reeus Banned Valued Senior Member

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    Brazen lying as usual. At the very start of Fravor's recounting, Part 1 at ~ 8:25 mark, he makes it clear FOUR of them had first-hand, (later - mutually corroborated), visual contact with the tic tac on the day. Pilot and navigator in each of the two FA-18 Super Hornets scrambled to the tic tac anomalous radar signature location, via the AEGIS equipped Princeton radar operator Kevin Day. Who has given his own corroborative testimony more than once.
    Two of those aircrew were as of that 2019 interview, still US Navy personnel thus understandably reticent to come forward and testify publcly. The other aircrew member who has, once out of the navy, given corroborative evidence was the female pilot of the FA-18 that remained in a ~ 20,000 ft holding pattern thus affording a separate, elevated vantage point to that of Fravor and navigator.

    Lt cmdr Alex Dietrich was the other FA-18 pilot who visually witnessed the 2004 tic tac incident, and has come forward after retiring from the navy. Start ~ 6:30 mark here:


    Earlier, Lt. Ryan Graves gave testimony re the 2014-15 incidents off the US East Coast. Both him and fellow FA-18 pilot Lt. Danny Accoin responded to interviews here:
    https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...os-encounters-new-radar-tech-key-in-detection

    But just go on lying your head off. Zero responsibility, zero repercussions here at SF. James R's very own patch of 'paradise'.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2021
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  9. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    When your whole argument against a ufo sighting comes down to slandering without evidence an eyewitness that you don't even know, then you're pretty much done.
     
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  10. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Again: It is not on the skeptic to have to show it didn't happen; it is on the claimant to show it did.

    Again: It is an incontrovertible fact that people do misidentify things. Yes, even trained pilots. Your claim of "slander" is silly.

    Again:
    You sure you don't believe in God? There are lots of complete strangers who will tell you he exists. You can trust them. Heck, some of them are trained pilots. They're not lying, by the way. They really believe what they're saying.

    For the rest of us - we re not so gullible as to take the accounts of complete strangers as unassailable gospel. Gospel is not part of rational analysis.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2021
  11. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    See Q-reeus' post #5205 for evidence and eyewitnesses corroborating Favor's account.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2021
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  12. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    I didn't say there wasn't corroborating evidence. His account is one piece of evidence, and eyewitness evidence is known to be problematic.
    Your puffery about "slandering" complete strangers flies in the face of objective analysis.
     
  13. Q-reeus Banned Valued Senior Member

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    Erratum: Sorry to have confused anyone reading my post #5205 where somehow I linked to wrong vid below the following line there:

    "Lt cmdr Alex Dietrich was the other FA-18 pilot who visually witnessed the 2004 tic tac incident, and has come forward after retiring from the navy. Start ~ 6:30 mark here:"

    The intended vid was this one
     
  14. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Making up shit about someone just to dismiss their account of a ufo isn't "objective analysis". It's smearing their reputation in order to damage their credibility. It's malicious, and trollish, and won't pass muster here.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2021
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  15. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Don't be ridiculous. It's analysis of an event, not an award ceremony.

    More to the point, if you, MR, set your bar at "argument by authority" then you have stopped analyzing, have made your personal judgment and have nothing more to analyze.
    Which is fine for you. Now sit down and let the adults talk.
     
  16. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Wrong and insulting, as usual.
    I accept that Fravor says that 4 people saw something that day.
    The radar operator cannot confirm Fravor's visual description of the UFO, so he's out. The issue of what he saw on his radar screen is a separate one.

    Right. Got it. Two of the alleged witnesses have said nothing publically in support of Fravor's story.
    Where can we find a record of her evidence? What's her name?
    The video you linked has a length of 5:41, so there is no "6:30" mark!
    Is Alex Dietrich the female pilot you mentioned, or somebody else?
    That was a separate incident. I don't know why you're bringing it up in the context of the Fravor tic tac. I guess you want to pretend they all saw the same thing, despite having zero evidence for that.
    About what?
     
  17. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Maybe so. Good thing that hasn't been my "whole argument". Nor, by the way, have I ever argued against the "ufo sighting". UFO=unidentified. Remember?

    Or have you identified it?
     
  18. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    She says almost nothing in that video. Basically just backs up what Fravor says, but talks very little about what she personally saw (if anything).
     
  19. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Are you accusing me of "making shit up" about somebody? Fravor, perhaps?

    Tell me, what shit did I make up about Fravor, specifically?

    If you're going to make accusations, better be ready to back them up with evidence.
     
  20. river

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    17,307
    Accusation that JamesR , and his gang have read next to nothing on UFOs .

    One point for me .
     
  21. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Did you not say Fravor was making alot of money at speaking gigs and getting his lunches paid for by audience members? Where did you get that information?
     
  22. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    If she backs up what Fravor says he saw, then that IS what she personally saw. The same thing he saw. What's so hard to understand about that?
     
  23. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    If she is simply confirming what he saw, then her account is effectively worthless. We need her account unpolluted by what she heard from someone else.
     

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