Unf**king Believable, A mosque to be built at Ground Zero

Do unto others (ignore them) as you would have them do unto you (leave you alone).
;):facepalm:

This was the interpretation from a so-called Christian Saint who commited mass murder:

"BETTER TO DESTROY THEIR BODIES AND SAVE THEIR SOULS" - Isabela of Spain.

Gee thanks. How can I ever repay you! How about saying good bye to medevial Europe and discovering America!? :D
 
This was the interpretation from a so-called Christian Saint who commited mass murder:

"BETTER TO DESTROY THEIR BODIES AND SAVE THEIR SOULS" - Isabela of Spain.

Gee thanks. How can I ever repay you! How about saying good bye to medevial Europe and discovering America!? :D

Please quit lying, there is no saint Isabela in catholic tradition
 
You merit the prize for never being right.
well if you think Iam never right that must mean I'm always right considering your never right

A footnote yes, one 4000 years old and still going strong, controlling the most cherished real estate in the universe
the foot note comment was in regards you length of existence but the fact they have contributed very little that is solely jewish achievments and really didn't have that much of an effect on history

Israel IS a nation, in fact the first recorded one in history.
both of those are false. Israel is not a nation. the jews are a nation a nation if a people. Israel is a state in that it is a country.
I know of no nation, including older and mightier ones,
well there is the Babaloyans, the Hittites, the Sumerairians, the Chinese, there was one in north eastern india, oh and Eygpt.
which have actually recorded their formation as a nation,
except they didn't. the big book of jewish myths isn't history one of these days your going to grow up and realize that.
 
This was the interpretation from a so-called Christian Saint who commited mass murder:

"BETTER TO DESTROY THEIR BODIES AND SAVE THEIR SOULS" - Isabela of Spain.

Gee thanks. How can I ever repay you! How about saying good bye to medevial Europe and discovering America!? :D

Its all a moot point. All the religions are doomed like old men.

If one wants to live by the sword in the new world, one needs to have nintendo fingers, to control the unmanned weapon probes. And if one doesn't savvy Pikachu, Ash, and company, one will be...eliminated.

Is anime a religion? Yes.
Will it take over the world? Yes.
 
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You missed out the most important factor. RECIPROCITY. Your welcome to built a mosque in Bondi and Manhattan - how about a church in Mecca?

The problem is that those Islamics that control other countries make the laws there and that's why many Muslims moved away from those countries to begin with and came to America. To many times we blame everyone for what only some of the others are doing , which is a very bad habit to start. By showing that Muslims can and do in fact live in a FREE country like America and can practice their religion without any repercussions, only shows the others in their home countries that there's nothing to fear of every other religion, only the fear of losing their control over others that they maintain with total religious dogma.
 
The problem is that those Islamics that control other countries make the laws there and that's why many Muslims moved away from those countries to begin with and came to America.

This is how Palestine, allocated to the Jews in the Balfour, was overwhelmed with Muslims as a destruction of Israel premise - it is a genocide aspiration in alignment with genocdal Quranic advocations: 'NO OTHER RELIGION SHALL PREVAIL IN ARABIA'. The same issue impacts on India today. In both cases, vast land masses were given as Muslim countries - which never existed before, all being ficticious states which never existed 120 years ago - still the majority preferred living outside of Islamic regime states - India is stuffed with over 300 M Mulsims who will never go to Pakistan - so why was it created? - and why are Muslims obsessed with 2 cubits of barren land in Palestine - are they short of land!? Muslims don't need land - they just stuff it up into shit holes. Best way to save Muslims is to overturn all regimes states created by Briton: exile is what saved the Jews.
 
well if you think Iam never right that must mean I'm always right considering your never right

Not just me. People are waking up to your BS, including those who commited two Holocausts, denied by Muslims. Read some of the names here:

Mass European Rally for Israel

04 October 2010

A mass rally-demonstration entitled “For the truth, for Israel” will be held in Rome this Thursday. It is being organized by Fiamma Nirenstein – journalist, MP, and vice president of the Committee on Foreign Affairs of the Italian Chamber of Deputies – and other leading European personalities. MK Nirenstein forwarded the information about the rally to IsraelNationalNews.

The rally will be held at the Temple of Hadrian (Tempio di Adriano), Piazza di Pietra, on Thursday, October 7 at 6:00 PM. Ironically, it was the Roman Emperor Hadrian who, late in his reign, suppressed the Bar Kokhba revolt in Judea in 145 C.E., and renamed the province Syria Palestina.

The rally is billed as "the first European, bipartisan event aimed at restoring the truth regarding Israel, putting an end to the barrage of lies that are hurled at Israel every day and to the double standard used by the media and international organizations." More than 80 personalities, politicians, intellectuals, artists and journalists from all over Europe are registered to take the floor for a maximum of five minutes each. Opening the event will be former Spanish Prime Minister José Maria Aznar, president of “Friends of Israel."

In addition to MP Nirenstein, other promoters of the initiative are Giuliano Ferrara, editor in chief of "Il Foglio" daily; French philosopher Shmuel Trigano; Dutch MEP Bastiaan Belder (Epp); former German MP Gert Weisskirchen (Spd); president of the Jewish Community of Rome Riccardo Pacifici; professor and writer Giorgio Israel; journalists Giuseppe Caldarola, Angelo Pezzana, Daniele Scalise, Carlo Panella; producer of musical events David Zard; and Anita Friedman, president of “Appuntamento a Gerusalemme."

Among those who have joined the initiative are the following Members of the European Parliament: Hannu Takkula (Finland), Marco Scurria (Italy), Bastiaan Belder (NL), Corina Cretu (Romania), Pablo Arias (Spain), Magdi Cristiano Allam (Italy), and Antonio Lopez Istùriz (Spain).

Still others who have joined include Nobel Prize and Senator for life Rita Levi Montalcini; professor and Senator Umberto Veronesi; Israeli Brig.-Gen. (ret.) Yosef Kuperwasser; Israel's Vice PM Silvan Shalom; Yuli Edelstein, Israel's Minister of Public Diplomacy and Diaspora Affairs; Franco Frattini, Italian Minister of Foreign Affairs; Bruce Bawer, author of "While Europe Slept"; Melanie Phillips, journalist; Phyllis Chesler, professor emerita of psychology and women' studies at the College of Staten Island; writer Roberto Saviano, author of "Gomorrah"; Dore Gold, former Israeli Ambassador to the UN; Amir Fakhravar, Iranian dissident in exile; Farid Ghadry, President of Syrian Reform Party; Russian Senator Vladimir Sloutsker; Tomas Sandell, Director of the European Coalition for Israel (Finland); Mara Carfagna, Italian Minister for Equal Opportunities; Renato Brunetta, Italian Minister of Public Administration; Gideon Meir, Israeli Ambassador to Italy; writers Nicolai Lilin and Rosa Matteucci; singers Lucio Dalla, Massimo Ranieri, Chiara Iezzi, Raiz (ex "Almamegretta"); Israeli historian Benny Morris; film director Cristina Comencini; Giorgio Albertazzi; film producer Riccardo Tozzi (Cattleya); Davood Karimi, President of Association of Iranian Political Refugees in Italy; Dounia Ettaib, President of Arab Women in Italy; editors in chief of the newspapers, "Libero" (Maurizio Belpietro), "Il Tempo" (Mario Sechi), "L'Occidentale" (Giancarlo Loquenzi), "Il Riformista" (Antonio Polito), “Libertiamo.it” (Carmelo Palma); journalists Paolo Mieli, Massimo Bordin, Giulio Meotti, Toni Capuozzo, Alain Elkann, Ernesto Galli Della Loggia, Maria Latella, Pierluigi Battista, Barbara Palombelli; many MPs from all the political parties, among them: Walter Veltroni, Furio Colombo, Enrico Pianetta, Francesco Rutelli, Italo Bocchino, Gianni Vernetti, Benedetto Della Vedova, Giovanna Melandri, Fabrizio Cicchitto, Ferdinando Adornato, Gaetano Quagliariello, Margherita Boniver, and many others.

The organizers say that the "de-legitimization of Israel comes from all latitudes and without any restraints. Israel, the most openly threatened country in the world, is condemned by the international institutions and media for whatever it does, whether it is seeking to defend itself from terrorist attacks, trying to stop the supply of weapons to Gaza, or simply doing the normal activities that any democratic country does."

They add that Israel's "scientific, cultural, social, economic, and sport achievements are constantly boycotted, even with violence. The double standard is the normal standard applied to Israel: the UN, dedicating to it 80% of its resolutions, condemns Israel at every step, while countries that systematically violate human rights and commit massacres, are never punished."

"But a large part of the public opinion is tired of this lie," the organizers state. "The de-legitimization of Israel undermines democracy, and corrupts international institutions that should protect peace and fight against terrorism. It legitimates oppressive and violent cultures against women, homosexuals and freedom of thought. In fact, it justifies anti-democratic cultures. For this reason we want to say 'enough' to all the lies about Israel and to claim that Europe loves Israel and wants it living in peace."

For more info, click here: www.truthforisrael.eu, www.fiammanirenstein.com


the foot note comment was in regards you length of existence but the fact they have contributed very little that is solely jewish achievments and really didn't have that much of an effect on history

both of those are false. Israel is not a nation. the jews are a nation a nation if a people. Israel is a state in that it is a country. well there is the Babaloyans, the Hittites, the Sumerairians, the Chinese, there was one in north eastern india, oh and Eygpt. except they didn't. the big book of jewish myths isn't history one of these days your going to grow up and realize that.[/

More BS. Israel is a nation [proven with a 3000 year text]. Please show your equivalent claim of any Islamic state also being a nation? Saudi Arabia was created 100 years ago, in secret, with no UN voting motion, as with Israel. Egypt was never Arab - the Copts own this land. Iran is under a Nazi like dictator which murders the citizens by the 1000's - and no Islamic Freedom Fighters can be found - they are all too busy fighting for freedom in the cafes and schools of other nations. Islam will rule the world, right!?
 
If I was in Rome, I'd pop along.
As it is, by reading your post I feel like I've been there for a week.
You aren't Welsh are you?
I'm not saying you are long winded or anything.
 
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My fav religion is a recently emerged Aussie one, and its called FAIRGOISM.

Is it possible that the Israelis might give the Palestinians a Fair-go sometime?

I never knew about the Holocaust until I was about 14.
No-one told me anything about it at school.
Then I discovered some books in the library that told me what happened.
I checked the books out and took them home.
My parents knew all about it, but they hadn't said anything either.

I didn't know any Jews, going to a Catholic school, but I sympathised with the sheer injustice of it all. It sickened my stomach.

Then when I saw Israelis bulldozing Palestinian homes, I felt the same thing.
Injustice. The strong lording it over the weak.
Sorry for being antisemitic etc. etc.
 
I saw in a docu that touched upon the Cordoba House controversy that the 'head imam' from London said something along the lines of 'We'll take over the White House. *serious face*' He looked pretty serious when he said that.. (in the debate was also Feisal's wife present, a woman from Africa, etc.) Sadly those docus are shown only past midnight so that nobody who has a normal sleeping schedule can see them. I guess it could be called a form of censorship a la European standard.

Either way, Cordoba House issue seems to have become a Freedom of Religion fight for some..which is loltastic if I think about the inconsiderate behaviour of the initiators of said Cordoba Initiative. If they wouldn't have claimed that this building is based on such high moral standards and supposedly a representative of mutual understanding then I would have accepted their "freedom of religion, and freedom a la USA" argument, but seeing that this project isn't welcome with open arms by the rest of society kind of hints that if this was really about building a bridge between the cultures then they'd kindly move their project a few blocks further away from the critical location they picked, but uh, no..how sensitive.

@geoff: yeah, how ironic.
 
Interestingly, no less organization than CAIR is now hosting Sharif el-Gamal, the developer of the Ground Zero Mosque, to speak at one of their many banquets.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/maggiehaberman/0910/ElGamal_to_speak_at_CAIR_banquet_.html?showall

Should one be surprised? :D I do hate to say "I told you so". But I did.

You mean that guy is speaking before a completely legal organization that you dislike? Come to think of it, are there ANY muslim organizations you don't dislike?

"Government officials in Washington said they were not aware of any criminal investigation of the group. More than one described the standards used by critics to link CAIR to terrorism as akin to McCarthyism, essentially guilt by association."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/14/w...174217e8d&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

Unsurprisingly, guilt by association in the lynch pin of your argument against the Cordoba Initiative as well, but BRAVO for trying to double down and associating them with CAIR. Guilt by attenuated association.
 
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Don't do anything until a trained professional arrives

You mean that guy is speaking before a completely legal organization that you dislike?

Sorry, Pandi: I think you mean "before an unindicted co-conspirator in the Holy Land Foundation terrorism support venture". If he'd spoken before, say, the Florida Chapter of the Klu Klux Klan, I think we'd be justified in drawing some conclusions.

Come to think of it, are there ANY muslim organizations you don't dislike?

Sure: the American Islamic Forum for Democracy. The Center for Islamic Pluralism. But be sure to peddle your wide insinuations: I'd hate for you to have any less than your full say. By the by: are there any religious fundamentalist organizations you don't like?

"Government officials in Washington said they were not aware of any criminal investigation of the group. More than one described the standards used by critics to link CAIR to terrorism as akin to McCarthyism, essentially guilt by association."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/14/w...174217e8d&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

I love the "argumentation by gov'mint" argument: "Whul, the gov'mint don't know nothin' about it, so it ain't re-ul!" Sorry: which part of the gov'mint did this refer to? What's their portfolio? Who? Is it the one retired FBI official mentioned by name? Well, brilliant. Got me there.

Unsurprisingly, guilt by association in the lynch pin of your argument against the Cordoba Initiative as well

The first half of your sentence was ungrammatical, but comprehensible. I suppose I could hardly give a shit about your pre-existing bias, Pandi, but that would be saying too much. It's perfectly reasonable to wonder about the associations people make, and I'm certain it's not something you consider unethical when done by you for whatever purposes you possess.
 
Tolerance

I *am perplexed that so many people in the USA are against a mosque *being built
near Ground Zero. I think it should be the goal of *every citizen to be
tolerant. *The mosque should be allowed, in an effort to promote tolerance.

That *is why I also propose, that two gay nightclubs be opened next *door
to the mosque thereby promoting tolerance within the *mosque. We could call
the clubs "The Turban Cowboy" and "You *Mecca Me So Hot".

Next *door should be a butcher shop that specializes in pork and have *an
open barbeque with spare ribs as its daily special. * Across the street a
very daring lingerie store called *"Victoria Keeps Nothing Secret" with sexy
mannequins in the *window modelling the goods.

Next *door to the lingerie shop, there would be room for an Adult Toy Shop
(Koranal Knowledge?), its name in flashing neon lights, and on the other
side a liquor store, maybe call it "Morehammered"?
 
I *am perplexed that so many people in the USA are against a mosque *being built
near Ground Zero. I think it should be the goal of *every citizen to be
tolerant. *The mosque should be allowed, in an effort to promote tolerance.

That *is why I also propose, that two gay nightclubs be opened next *door
to the mosque thereby promoting tolerance within the *mosque. We could call
the clubs "The Turban Cowboy" and "You *Mecca Me So Hot".

Next *door should be a butcher shop that specializes in pork and have *an
open barbeque with spare ribs as its daily special. * Across the street a
very daring lingerie store called *"Victoria Keeps Nothing Secret" with sexy
mannequins in the *window modelling the goods.

Next *door to the lingerie shop, there would be room for an Adult Toy Shop
(Koranal Knowledge?), its name in flashing neon lights, and on the other
side a liquor store, maybe call it "Morehammered"?

I have no idea what you really think, but that's something very close to what I think. I am SO there with you, what shall I bring? :) I mean for the opening ceremonies each. I am coming from the other side of the world. Ask for something!
 
That is damn clever writing, and very true.
Funny too, though most Muslims won't get the joke.
Some sweet lines in there. A bar called Morehammered. :)
Any ideas who the author is?
 
I *am perplexed that so many people in the USA are against a mosque *being built
near Ground Zero. I think it should be the goal of *every citizen to be
tolerant. *The mosque should be allowed, in an effort to promote tolerance.

That *is why I also propose, that two gay nightclubs be opened next *door
to the mosque thereby promoting tolerance within the *mosque. We could call
the clubs "The Turban Cowboy" and "You *Mecca Me So Hot".

Next *door should be a butcher shop that specializes in pork and have *an
open barbeque with spare ribs as its daily special. * Across the street a
very daring lingerie store called *"Victoria Keeps Nothing Secret" with sexy
mannequins in the *window modelling the goods.

Next *door to the lingerie shop, there would be room for an Adult Toy Shop
(Koranal Knowledge?), its name in flashing neon lights, and on the other
side a liquor store, maybe call it "Morehammered"?

All of which is fine if the street in question is zoned for those and the property owners are willing to sell/lease space fore them *and*, of course you can find people who want to run (and likely lose money) on those establishments. Of course the point is that many muslims would not be tolerant of those establishments, to which I say (i) even if true, we do NOT set our level of tolerance based on the the lowest level of tolerance out there in the community..that's Old Europe talk and many Americans came here to escape that, and (ii) many Jews and Christans would have problems with strip clubs and gay night clubs, so presumably those should be excluded as well?

Your answer is glib, but predicated on false, twin assumptions that we should only be as tolerant as we can be sure they would be, and that Islam is the only intolerant religion.
 
I love the "argumentation by gov'mint" argument: "Whul, the gov'mint don't know nothin' about it, so it ain't re-ul!" Sorry: which part of the gov'mint did this refer to? What's their portfolio? Who? Is it the one retired FBI official mentioned by name? Well, brilliant. Got me there.

The only person here talking like a redneck is you. You're the unsophisticated one, not me, so stop projecting.

In fact, the government knows quite a lot about CAIR. Trust me that no one at CAIR lies awake because of your ill-formed diatribes against them. They have members of Congress who oppose them...none of whom can make a charge of wrongdoing stick, which is why CAIR still exists, and has not been shut down.

If you have evidence against CAIR, then take it to the authorities...but you don't. If you had it, then so would others, and CAIR, which is, again, extremely well scrutinized, would have been destroyed and many of its members in jail. They're not. The authorities don't respond to innuendo and bigotry.

You ask me which government agencies I was writing about, but it doesn't work that way. I would have to prove a negative to show that CAIR is not under criminal investigation. On the other hand, if you allegations are correct, then no doubt you can show which *are* investigating them. Much like your own posts, the complaints against them are all just bitching, with no sustained action ever being taken. That is why CAIR has been around so long, despite having been a pet target of many conservatives since the mid-1990s. Face facts, if your allegations were correct CAIR would have been shut down years ago.

Worse for your case, speaking at a CAIR event, does not mean "in league with CAIR." Speaking at an event is not the same as an endorsement, and CAIR is a large forum as Muslim organizations go, and usually draws respectably sized crowds as I understand it.

You also never answered my question: Are there any Islamic organizations of which you approve? It's perfectly reasonable to wonder if you are being unbiased if there is no Muslin Group in all of America that you consider itself respectable.

The first half of your sentence was ungrammatical, but comprehensible. I suppose I could hardly give a shit about your pre-existing bias, Pandi, but that would be saying too much. It's perfectly reasonable to wonder about the associations people make, and I'm certain it's not something you consider unethical when done by you for whatever purposes you possess.

First, please use my full screen name. You have not earned the right to call me by pet names, sweetie. Denigrating me by using a pet name and criticizing my argument's supposed grammatical flaws do not strengthen your position, they just highlight how thin the substance of your comebacks are.

That you talk about bias is laughable...since you are the one seeking to abridge the freedom of Muslims to build a mosque on land they control, all in compliance with the laws. My point is "live and let live", so I am happy to late history decide which side of the debate was biased.

It is perfectly reasonable to wonder at the associations people make, but you have no proof of wrongdoing on ether side, just guilt by association. Linking two weak arguments of wrongdoing together does not transform them into one solid argument for wrongdoing.
 
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