Nice to meet you AwakePlease Register or Log in to view the hidden image!, your sometimes astute comments here are what made me decide to post to this forum on this particular topic. But I think you might be slightly misunderstanding my meaning. What I have written in the last two posts is actually a confirmation of what you've said in various posts, seen from the viewpoint of my own tradition, Dzogchen. >>The years you are talking about (phases actually) are just one of many paths. If it works for you then wonderful but I don't agree that everyone needs that path. Everyone is already on their own path, if they realize it or not. The path is an on-going journey to find out your own realization. Those who are realized masters often times refer back to their many previous lives. They were on their own paths for all those lifetimes. Of course, and I would hope that I didn't say that it was the only way to practise within my posting. There are many, many paths, each suitable for the different mentalities of every type of student. There is no single way. What I'm describing is the route that a very high proportion of Buddhists tend to take once they've spent a few years practising Mahayana methods - and the route that many of my fellow practitioners have taken. It isn't written in stone that you MUST do this, it is purely the student's own choice. Someone might for example include more Vajrayana practises along the way, or stop at lower Ati - it's a purely personal decision. But, within the range of available practises there are schools of thought and Ways which are a speedier means to enlightenment than others. And, if they're suitable for a particular student then they can have very rapid effects. What I simply hope to point out is that the road to the first goal of the Path does not have to be over many lifetimes, or require years of ascetic practises, or even in all cases need the experiencer to have ever meditated. It doesn't have to be a journey, it can be simply what it is, a 'realisation' of the way in which Suchness abides. I think, and I'm sure you must too, that the more we can let people know about the variety of practises that are available, the higher the likelihood of someone here finding the perfect path for themselves and achieving enlightenment. This is the only aim of my posting here, and if I can help or advise anyone with their practises (I've been involved in meditation for 20 years and taught for the last 10) I would be happy to do so. Mind you, you're doing a very good job of it yourself over the last few weeks...Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Regards, N
Notthis, Thank you kindly for your comments. I have taken notice of your posts as well. I didn't mean to imply that you were a proponent of a single path per se. What I was trying to do is let others know there are many paths. I truely believe that no one person could ever be on the same path as another. It's, as you said, an individual choice. Even if the person isn't concious of that choice yet. Let me explain...I feel that everyone, everywhere is on the path to their final enlightenment. We have been for many lifetimes. Each lifetime we live, we generally work to refine who we are and where we are going. As we get closer to the "goal", the process speeds up. And then finally we "realize" that the goal is already accomplished. We are AWAKE. Epiphany of epiphanies!! We can completely understand that no matter what...we are that and not that. All duality, illusions, samsara becomes oneness. The oneness that we all are. Our ability to describe it with words is to limited to suffice.
Awake, I would agree wholeheartedly with what you say, although I don't hold to the normal interpretation of previous lives. The journey to enlightenment is an interesting one. Some people assume that enlightenment happens during a single experience, but this is a 'glimpse' of full enlightenment - a sense, an experience, of it - rather than a continual experience of it. We can say that somebody has realisation, without them necessarily being able to take the reality they have perceived in this experience into their normal waking lives in totality. There are many kinds of Glimpses and none is less or more important than another if it contains an experience of empty, self-knowing awareness. But some also contain 'super-knowledges', which are further direct understandings of things like time, and the way that reality is structured overall, etc. But, this is one case where to some degree size doesn't matterPlease Register or Log in to view the hidden image!. If the experience contains an understanding of the true nature of reality, it's realisation, which can be matured and lived, to eventually grow into a continuing state. There've been a couple of reasonably large polls over the years, which would seem to show that around 54% of us will have a glimpse of one kind or another in our our lives - though few will leave behind tangible knowledge that remains with the subject for very long afterwards. They experience 'something' beyond their rational understanding, but can still feel a perfect affinity for it, understanding the rightness it possesses and the unquestionable reality of it as an experience. But even without this being enlightenment, it is still an experience which can, and regularly does, change people's lives. I don't really find it surprising that small experiences should be so common when realisation is 'simply'Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! a case of understanding what you already are. We aren't people having experiences of One-ness, but One-ness having experiences as people - which are no more than just aspects of Ourself. N
I agree. It is our disillusion that we are seperate in the first place. And I agree that people have moment of enlightenment. I think the statistic is a bit high, but statistics is a strange game anyway. Many times the results from stats are manipulated by the questions asked. And what definition, say of enlightenment, that the person taking the poll is using. BTW, Check your pm N.
Yes, I would agree. I think the figure (although it came out fairly similar in two different polls) should be more like 35%, with about 5% of those having something of real importance. In terms of the questions asked, there was never any mention of it being in connection with enlightenment though, it was based on something like James' criteria for a 'Peak Experience', although this was never mentioned. But, as you say, statistics can be made to say whatever anyone desires... PM? LOLPlease Register or Log in to view the hidden image! I've been so intent on the postings here I didn't realise we could PM! N
