United States to Invade Texas! Get Your Arms!

Discussion in 'Politics' started by joepistole, May 5, 2015.

  1. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Gotta say...

    1) If anyone really believes Obama is going to "Invade Texas", a location that is already PART of the United States... well, my only response to that is

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    2) That "pastor" in the video above was hilarious... hilariously bad, but hilarious. There was nothing "Godly" about his message at all.
     
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  3. Bells Staff Member

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    I'm just glad I didn't have the speakers turned on. My kids were home.
     
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  5. Photizo Ambassador/Envoy Valued Senior Member

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    I think you are 'spinning' what people are concerned about. It's a combination of things that, as I said earlier, you either 'see' or you don't. Someone who is inclined to look favorably on government would more than likely be carrying on with their life carelessly accepting of any proffered official explanation while being quick/eager to mock anyone who dares question the events--As we see in this thread.

    I thought the video was funny also...it was placed there as a joke. The second video is not a joke.
     
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  7. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    To be frank... it's Texas. At this point, I doubt most of the country really cares anymore - they've been threatening to secede from the US for, what, ten years now?
     
  8. Bells Staff Member

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    Most people are not paranoid about the Government being out to get them or is coming to take over the State.

    It's ridiculous. And when you have leaders of these States pandering to the paranoid crowd, then it makes for a dangerous mix. Not to mention a ridiculous one.
     
  9. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    Texas is planning to invade Austin.
     
  10. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Two Cents for Tinfoil

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    There are two things about the Jade Helm 15 conspiracy theory that bother me:

    (1) Why do conservatives get to denigrate our American military service members this way?

    (2) How does this low-grade tinfoil find its way into presidential politics?​
     
  11. Bells Staff Member

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    A few reasons.

    1) It suits at the present time. Notice how they are sure to thank those who serve at the same time as insulting them.

    2) This one goes into a lot more detail. It panders to their voter base in a variety of ways:
      1. OBAMA. One name. One word. These people still try to perpetuate the belief that he is a Muslim who hates their way of life.
      2. There is a war on Christians, especially white Christian men. Ties in with point 1, since this is about their belief that a Muslim usurper is in the White House.
      3. They want your guns. Also works well with the point 1 and 2 above. By taking away their guns, it allows OBAMA to install an Islamic Caliphate without anyone noticing.
      4. They are as batshit crazy as the people they are trying to pander to.
      5. It's Texas. 'Nuff said.

    In short, they are unlikely to have these people vote for them if they treat them like the paranoid batshit crazy lunatics that they really are.
     
  12. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    To this point, though, I would specifically note that the NRA has been getting away with this shit for years. And I never quite understood it. Supporting the troops is one thing, but I also come from a time when, well, okay, so there was this U.S. Marine accused of doing something very, very not nice in Okinawa, and some murmur and uproar over whether he would stand trial under Japanese law or, you know, we would take care of it internally in our military justice system that has such a sterling record when it comes to these particular issues. Something like that. And apparently supporting the troops meant disregarding any question of jurisdiction. Don't get me wrong, if he was on the base when he allegedly committed the crime, it's ours. But I never did understand how the idea that allowing Japanese criminal justice to handle what occurs in its jurisdiction was somehow being anti-military.

    And perhaps this sounds like an exaggeration to contemporary ears; the discourse was a lot more fragmented then, not twenty-four-seven drown-yo'-ass overload. But it's Cold War era, so that's part of it.

    Yet compared to the absolute savaging our service personnel get in the tinfoil campfire tales of our right-wing patriots, well, yeah, I really don't get why conservatives get away with this shit.

    I guess it comes down to: Look me in the eye and tell me they'd actually do it.

    I mean, it's rare that Rick Perry and I agree on anything, but come on, he's old enough to remember how it used to be. This is fucking bullshit. I mean, come on, I'm somehow "unpatriotic" because, what, I don't give my soldiers a blanket pass to do nasty, horrible things to people?

    Yet the heart of their "patriotism" has to do with believing our service personnel would do certain othe horrible, nasty things to people?

    What the hell?

    I mean, you know me, I'm all for the psychoanalysis, so as far as the belief goes, I'm sure it can be explained.

    But what I don't get is why the rest of society puts up with it the way we do. I mean, it's easy enough for you or me to see, sure, but the NRA wouldn't be getting away with this shit if it didn't work. And now it's to the point that the governor of Texas is tinfoiling to appease these people?

    What am I missing? How are they getting away with this?
     
  13. Photizo Ambassador/Envoy Valued Senior Member

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    Don't worry, they won't for much longer. Those in power who think like you won't be able to tolerate these things much longer. Then, the practice runs like jade helm will turn into the reality they're preparing for. See, those who think like you infest the government from the top down regardless of party. Presently, thanks to the officer purges, there are many boot licking brass who will do the bidding of politicians who think and believe just like you. It's just a matter of time before the seething hatred and disgust you express here will spew forth as official policy towards fellow citizens who just happen to disagree or see things differently. After they're taken care of, then you will finally be at peace just like in China or the Soviet Union...except you won't be at peace...you will always be wondering who isn't on board with the official "peoples" collective ideas of righteousness and piety.

    Common sense and a rightly formed conscience for starters.
     
  14. Kristoffer Giant Hyrax Valued Senior Member

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    What a load of bullshit.
     
  15. Bells Staff Member

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    'MURICA.. FUCK YEAH!!1!!!!1!!

    You are approaching this question from a sane standpoint. You need to remember, you aren't dealing with normal people.

    The answer is there. Look at Photizo's paranoia as a prime example.

    These people actually believe the soldiers are being paid off and/or are simply too stupid to know any better or they want this "purge" of people from Texas.

    Photizo has bought it hook, line and sinker, by the looks of it...

    So for these people, they actually believe the soldiers are going to do what they are told. You just need to look at these people who attended the meeting where they aired their views about Jade Helm 15 and their fear that this was a take over:

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    We aren't in the land of normal run of the mill paranoia anymore, where they merely talked about 'they are going to take away our guns' and 'town meetings about "chemtrails".. We are now in the batshit crazy tea party paranoia. Worse yet, politicians are capitalising on their paranoia for political gain.

    Certainly, they do not care that people are laughing at their absolute stupidity.

    To these people, everyone is against them. If you do not think like them, then you are against them.

    Yes, it has come to this.

    Saner Republicans are not going to be able to distance themselves from this. Especially now that some of those who are running are pandering to the freakshow that is now the lunatic tea party fringe.

    This is funny as hell. You could not make this level of stupidity up if you tried.

    The biggest fear is that some of these mouth breathing yokels are going to go all AMERICA, FUCK YEAH, and open fire on these poor soldiers.

    Much as I am not a fan of the man, Maher put it best:

    "Have you heard of Jade Helm 15?" Bill Maher asked. "It is actually a code name for a routine training exercise the US military is planning to conduct in the Southwest which the Tea Baggers in Texas are convinced is actually an Obama plot to invade Texas, take their guns, and impose a new world order. Yes, because we hate Lubbock for its freedom"

    Bill Maher then went out to state some rather uncomfortable realities about today's Republican Party. "In today's Republican Party you can't call out nutty people for being nutty," Bill Maher said. "Because they are not a small group. In the Republican Party crazy is a constituency."

    Maher points out that the Governor of Texas has actually called out the Texas Guard to monitor the activities of the United States military. What Maher does not realize is that Greg Abbott cannot allow anyone to get to the right of him. He has a Lieutenant governor, Dan Patrick, that is eyeing his job. The Republican Party in Texas is in a turmoil where logic is in short supply.

    Bill Maher had a rather funny last point he wanted to make. As a Texan it was a piercing but needed jab for my ill-informed Texas brothers and sisters.

    "You rural white people who are always saying things like 'Don't mess with Texas'," Bill Maher said. "Let me tell you something. You are among the most left alone least messed with people on the planet. You can carry an assault rifle into a Chile's. What more do you want. The right to do it shirtless? You are practically your own independent country now. You have outlawed abortion. You have gutted government regulation. You are armed to the teeth. You are the white Somalia. Stop worrying about getting sucked into the new world order. You are barely in the current world order. And the only reason we conduct military exercises in your area is there is no chance of accidentally damaging anything anybody cares about."

    In other words, "it's Texas"..

    Frankly, politicians who support this paranoid fantasy gone wrong should be purged and publicly shamed and voters should be constantly reminded that the people they are voting for actually bought this level of paranoia.

    Shit!

    You have discovered the plan for the new world order.

    Therefore, you shall be next.
     
  16. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    It's easy to ridicule people's concern about massive special-operations exercises scheduled to take place in their communities.

    But imagine that it was an urban warfare exercise, conducted during the George W. Bush administration, set to take place in black neighborhoods. Or imagine that this Jade Helm exercise was planned by Republicans for predominantly Hispanic communities along the Mexican border.

    Wouldn't we expect to see those communities expressing some concern and distrust? Wouldn't we expect theorizing about what the nefarious motives might be? And wouldn't we expect to see not only the more looney-tunes fringes of the left-media, but also the likes of the New York Times, picking it up and trying to spin it into evidence that a political party that they viscerally hate perceives black or Hispanic America as targets of planned future military repression, while CNN intones that yes, that's a legitimate concern?

    If an exercise like this was slated for my town, and if armored vehicles and commmandos with automatic weapons were all over the streets, I'd worry about what might happen to people who leave their homes and try to go about their daily business. Would they have commands barked at them to get back inside, and would they be physically assaulted, restrained, or even shot if they told bad-ass special operators to go fuck themselves?

    The Army says that these exercises will only take place on private property, with the owners' consent, and that residents of local communities are unlikely to experience anything unusual beyond increased military vehicle traffic and perhaps some helicopters overhead. They say that the exercises will be taking place in several states, because they were looking for particular kinds of terrain. It supposedly has nothing to do with the ethnicity or the political leanings of the residents of those areas. I'm inclined to believe that.

    But I see nothing at all wrong with the Governor of Texas ordering state observers to monitor what's happening, to make sure that the Army's assurances that the rights and liberties of local residents will be respected are indeed honored. I applaud it.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2015
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  17. Bells Staff Member

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    Well yes it is. Because this isn't concern. This has become full blown paranoia that the Government is coming to take them over.

    Of course, I forget, Texas is a "white State".. [insert sarcastic eyeroll here]

    That said..

    And?

    You mean like the one they did in Miami a few years ago, without warning to any of the residents? Or the one they did over and around Chicago? Los Angeles?

    Are you aware that the military routinely holds such training exercises in urban areas, and yes, even in "black" areas? [insert sarcastic eyeroll here]

    Distrust against what? If Texas was a part of Mexico, then I might see their point, but they are afraid that their own Government is coming to take them over..

    No I wouldn't.

    Considering the fact that the military conduct such exercises in urban areas, and yes, even in black urban areas, I am yet to see the so called "strident and looney-tunes fringes of the left media" complaining that they were coming to 'take our guns and impose marshall law' like we are seeing in Texas. The level of paranoia in Texas is hysterical:

    Noted conspiracy theorist Alex Jones and his website, Infowars, have drawn much attention to "Jade Helm 15," which he has claimed is a "psy ops" plot that will condition Americans to the sight of troops on the streets.

    [...]

    "This is just a cover for deploying the military on the streets," Jones said, adding "I've hardly ever heard of something joint like this unless they're planning an invasion."

    [...]

    All News Pipeline cited reports of United Nations medical vehicles traveling through southwestern states in recent days as proof that the international body planned to confiscate Americans' firearms as part of "Jade Helm 15."

    [...]

    An anonymous "Texas Ranger" wrote a letter to Dave Hodges, host of "The Common Sense Show," claiming that there were "trains moving throughout Texas that have shackles inside some of the cars" ahead of the training exercise. He speculated that those trains would be used to transport political prisoners.

    [...]

    Some of the fringe blogs tracking "Jade Helm 15" have speculated about the existence of a "red list," which the blog DC Clothesline describes as a list of "key resistance figures [who] would be kidnapped and 'dealt with' in advance of the implementation of martial law." These websites posit that the "suspicious activity" described in the allegedly leaked slideshow presentation would include so-called "snatch-and-grabs" of people who've made the "red list" (The document posted by WFAW does not mention "suspicious activity").


    This theory was further pushed by a blog post at investmentwatch.com, which claimed that "Jade" stood for "Joint Assistant for Deployment and Execution" and that "Helm" stood for "Homeland Eradication of Local Militants.” As proof, that post linked to a military documentthat does not contain those acronyms.


    This is sane and reasonable to you?

    You watch too much TV.

    The building I worked in previously was part of a military terrorist/urban warfare scenario once. The first we knew of it was a blackhawk helicopter with people dressed like commandos with full on military hardware and gear pointing guns at our building, right outside my window in my office. Then the next thing we knew, the helicopter flew up, and the people jumped out and came down through the building. We saw the same thing on a neighbouring building. At no time were we prevented from going about our daily business. Our lifts were fully operational. Nothing was out of order.

    At no time did any one of us think we were being invaded or that our own Government were coming to get us. We waved to the helicopter that had then hovered back down to where my floor was and the guy holding the very large machine gun in the back waved back.

    Perhaps I am not paranoid, hence why it was no big deal.

    Monitor what? For what and against whom? To buy the votes of the tin foil hat brigade?

    The Governor has bought into the paranoia and instead of calming the people, he has made them even more afraid and being the paranoid types, they are more likely to go out with their guns and shoot people.

    Honestly, how else do people expect their military to train?

    These people should be mocked because they deserve to be mocked.
     
  18. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    I leave you all with this:



    Bill Maher pretty much hit it on the head with just how crazy things have gone.
     
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  19. Photizo Ambassador/Envoy Valued Senior Member

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    People have been told to report something suspicious...they do so and are mocked and pilloried.
     
  20. Photizo Ambassador/Envoy Valued Senior Member

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    Okay...And what should happen to you because of what you deserve? Have you considered that?
     
  21. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    I think part of that proposal involves accepting some sort of delusion about what is actually expected to happen.

    How American standards have plummeted. I'm not joking about Okinawa, Yazata. Around twenty years ago a Marine was accused of rape, and the question swirling in the American public discourse was whether or not he should stand trial in Japan or be shuffled through a court martial. The argument for pulling him from Japanese jurisdiction? It was a "support the troops argument".

    Yet this whole time, the NRA and other conservative organizations have been politicking on a platform that requires us to believe the average American soldier is akin to a Nazi.

    Put it this way: Even I don't think so poorly of our military as folks in Texas.

    So as I noted before, I need you to actually declare that you believe our service personnel, given the order to seize the United States, would do it.

    Because that's the difference between me and, say, these Texans. Or, perhaps, even between me and you. As much as I disdain armies and warfare, even I don't think so poorly of our service personnel. I don't just think they wouldn't do it. I know they wouldn't do it.

    Are you willing to say it to a soldier's face?

    The thing that gets me is that whenever Republicans stoop so low in their desperation, we're all supposed to pretend there is nothing unusual about it. This is a dangerous custom.

    So yes, it does stand out to me that there is apparently nothing disrespectful about this high-fuel politicking that requires we presuppose our service members to be so evil. I actually think it's exceptionally disrespectful, but, hey, I'm not a clear-headed Republican looking for an excuse to abuse my fellow human beings for the sake of feeling better about myself, so I'm probably not giving fair consideration to the merits of thinking, say, my friend's son is a bloodthirsty fascist asshole just waiting to destroy America. Then again, he joined the Army, and if I'm a Republican these days, that's all the evidence I need: He's guilty! Guilty! Guilty! Guilty!

    So the next time you see one of your neighbors whose kid is in the military, offer your condolences as a neighbor and, should the circumstance apply, fellow parent; after all, it is a terrible thing for a parent to witness their child choose descent into a world of hatred and crime and evil. Nobody wants to imagine they've raised a proper villain.

    And if you're not willing to say it to the face of a service member, or the family of a service member, why not?

    More than anything else, I really do wonder why we let conservatives get away with this wilfully awful behavior.

    During the Dubya years, I forget exactly what it was having to do with China, but there came a strange moment when Pat Buchanan and I were standing on the same side of an argument critical of the Bush administration's "politics of distraction" that involved overstating the Chinese threat to the American way of life.

    These moments are telling; they have specific contexts, such as the fact that between President Bush and his frontline talking heads, the general media coverage, and the words of all the other politicians taking part, it was me and Pat Buchanan who tapped a common memory of American history, and we both found ourselves at the same conclusion, that the China bit was a distraction, and a dangerously foolish attempt at that.

    So what?

    Presidential level: When Sen. Lindsay Graham (R-SC) gets to invoke the Civil War while playing the adult in the room, Republicans need to take a moment to consider what they're into.

    Not only is Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) in the Jade Tinfoil, he is also more generally trying to rally insurrectionists. And the ticking roster of Republicans calling for "Second Amendment remedies", or explaining that a .380 handgun is intended to stop the government, or any number of other such statements we've heard from conservative figures rallying their supporters toward war, has reached the point that a Republican presidential candidate is pushing insurrection as a campaign argument.

    All of which led Sen. Graham to make the point about insurrection: "Well, we tried that once in South Carolina. I wouldn’t go down that road again. I think an informed electorate is probably a better check than, you know, guns in the streets."

    And, you know, I don't really like Sen. Graham that much, and I think we all know his presidential ambitions aren't really grounded in any reality. Still, though, I would suggest he probably tacitly ended his presidential aspirations with that crack. While many of us actually appreciate sane words like that, liberals don't see an ally in Mr. Graham; rather, we worry about what nutsack South Carolina voters will replace him with.

    In terms of Jade Tinfoil, consider that Governor Oops is now the Republican voice of sanity on the issue. And that's the thing. Every once in a while I find myself standing shoulder to shoulder with a Republican I otherwise just don't have much appreciation for. When this happens, it's worth taking a look at why. And finding myself next to Rick Perry on this occasion feels very familiar. As with Buchanan and Graham, what we were looking at can be generally described as potentially dangerous innovations on traditionally risky politics, a reshaping of the (ahem!) "gentlemen's" way of American politicking.

    Consider Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY). He's willing to buck his outsider status as he comes around on foreign policy; seemingly a dove by proxy of comparative isolationism, Paul has thrown some pretty heavy stakes into policy revisions pertaining to Israel and Middle East regional engagement. That is to say, Mr. Paul is willing to become more imperial.

    But he is not prepared to cross his tinfoil wing on Jade Helm.

    Of the declared presidential contenders, three are known to be in with the tinfoil: Cruz, Paul, and Huckabee. In terms of Congress, it is worth noting that Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-TX01); this is significant for three reasons immediately apparent:

    (1) It's Louie Gohmert; if the fact of Chuck Norris isn't enough to notice the potsherds, Mr. Gohmert's arrival ought to be.

    (2) Mr. Gohmert has made this specifically about anti-Christendom; while many were already pretty convinced that this whole Texas Weak Tea conspiracy theory required some manner of the anti-Obama xenophobia that has possessed the conservative movement these recent years, that actually is a background component for now ...

    (3) ... because for the Republican from Texas One this is also part of a Christian nationalism and Christian identity issue. Fellow fringe figure Michele Bachmann is also out preaching the End Times; Rick Santorum is trying to cast Christianity as a victim, with Christians forced to live in a "secular atheist country ... dominated by radical Islamists". Mr. Huckabee is telling Christians their faith will soon be outlawed. Christian author Dr. James Dobson tells his audience to prepare for a Civil War ... over gay marriage.​

    They want a war. They have delusions of a glorious revolution in which they purge the nation of evil, evil equality. Or, in their minds, rescue liberty from the Devil in the White House. And they really, really need some kind of tyranny to fight against, given the severity of their rhetoric. So this is it. We now have a domestic version of two nations arguing over "wargames" and "military exercises".

    Never mind that the military has facilities for urban combat training; more challenging is to build a range over that much distance. Remember the theatres they're fighting in abroad. Sending them on a trek through Minnesota, North Dakota, and Montana won't be as useful in the warmer, more barren theatres our troops have seen recently and expect to see in the near future.

    So this is it. And all that is required is to look at that fresh-faced kid, the football star, who is passing on some sort of storybook future to enlist in the service and give these years, and even his life if necessary, to his country. That kid we are supposed to admire, and call a hero. And look at him and say, "Yeah, he'll do it. He'll murder me in my bed to take over the country for the evil Kenyan-Korean Communist-Nazi Muslims trying to destroy the Glory of American Imperialism That Isn't Imperialism But Instead Liberty and Justice for All."

    I may be a cynical American, but I am an American, and our tradition is that you're not supposed to treat our services this way ... unless, of course, you need them for racist counterrevolutionary tinfoil involving anal-bestial rape fantasies while a Democrat is in the White House. And that's the thing that gets me. Given everything else we are expected to defer for the sake of respect to our military, how is this requisite distrust of any given servicemember remotely acceptable?

    Even the Republican presidential contest is so far out on the fringe right now that Rick Perry gets to be the friendly, intelligent face in the room for a day.

    I don't know, I would think we might find this significant.
     
  22. Randwolf Ignorance killed the cat Valued Senior Member

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    Epic.

    Epic Tiassa, and epic in every sense of the word.

    Bravo!
     
  23. Photizo Ambassador/Envoy Valued Senior Member

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    You don't get it...
    It's their commander in chief that is presupposed to be evil. One would hope that, having taken an oath to defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic, they would be true to their word should they have to choose between the constitution or unlawful directives from the peoples commissar of defense. This operation is being done to purposely offend and antagonize citizens of Texas and Utah...the soldiers are just following orders...One would hope that they are in fact more honorable than the slimeball politicians who are over them who have sworn a similar oath. ...those same individuals would do well to consider where the loyalties of the rank and file lie--and that goes for the top brass also.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2015

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