Discussion in 'Religion' started by Xmo1, May 5, 2018.
I'm appreciative. Can't imagine any fault in being thankful.
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I hope no one is suggesting that we have any sock puppetry going on... that would be dishonest something neither Jan or Bowser would engage in I am sure just to push their God obsession.
I mean what are the chances of that?
It is a coincidence nothing more☺
We're just talking with you,
I don't see myself "pushing" anything. I won't come knocking at your door nor will I send you fliers. We're participating in an online discussion, correct? As always, you are free to ignore me.
And yet, you just finished telling me - in a discussion about whether God exists - that God loves me. Begging the question.
Yes. That is pushing.
Well one of the greatest powers one can have is the power to be able to look at yourself and see yourself as others see you.
I see myself as placid and peaceful so it was difficult to realise others did not see me that way.
Due to some minor incidences others saw me as agressive and violent.
I still know that I am placid but I can understand why others formed the impressions that they did.
As much as you protest the smart thing to do would be to ask yourself why others have formed that impression...why?
You give the impression you are pushing it...are you going to say I dont hold that impression or realise I hold that impression for actions by you.
I would like to think so but you must take on board my concern and disappointment that you are evasive.
You may think you are sage like posing questions but honestly it is not guru like...I had a mate like you..he presented questions just like you do with a smugness that he was somehow wise.
Bloody stupid and destroyed my respect for him and folk behind his back would laugh and call him guru.
Take it how you will but please if you want discussion then discuss stuff and drop this guru nonsence.
You teally are not holding up your end of discussion with the guru questions.
That is an option but it would eliminate any oppertunity for discussion.
You like discussing stuff well so do I so lets discuss stuff.
You can take or ignore my suggestion to drop the guru approach which I see as a benefit for you.
You can drop your evasive replies whuch I see as a benefit to you.
You might say that I am only trying to help you see what others see as opposed to what you believe of your actions.
Look I am cool about it all and neither of us need to be tactical.
You have a great day.
Am I forcing you to accept that love?
I'm simply talking about God. I see him; you don't. The fact you don't see him doesn't offend me, so I see no reason why my sight should offend you. I like talking about the topic.
I'm not trying to be evasive. I simply can't stuff a god in a neatly defined box and hand it to you. God is bigger than that. Sometimes questions are the best answers. They don't always work, but I do the best I can. Honestly, spirituality is not all that mysterious. That's why I insist it is available to anyone who wants it. I'm no more special than you.
I don't consider myself a guru or a sage. I'm happy to be alive and appreciative. I hope my comments reflect that sentiment.
I know thats what you think you are doing but the audience demands a better delivery I suggest.
Whats he wearing?
Do you see him like I see the stars or do you imagine him and your brain constructs an image.
Either way I would like you to describe what you see as I am interested in this part.
Could you draw him say?
If you are not up to drawing could you describe what you see in detail such that someone else could draw him?
Look if I said that I am sorry.
I say it does not offend me at all.
If you literally see him I would love to hear all about it even if you hold an image in your imagination I would love to have you describe what you "see".
I wont laugh etc if you are straight with me.
I would not do that...
Well so do I.
It interests me to trace through history and examine the evolvement of religion etc
Well you are lucky that I happened along as I am able to point out that although you dont think you are being evasive that is indeed the impression that I and others have.
Perhaps if you tried you could understand why that impression forms and if you are not trying to be evasive take steps to correct the impression to coincide with the way you see yourself.
And that is not easy as we do tend to think others think the same as we do...they dont.
I can understand the difficulty but trying to lead folk by questions is not helpful as it comes over as evasive.
All I suggest is to try and describe how you feel. I can handle that and even if I find it strange or diffetent you will have gained my respect by at least giving it a honest go.
You see as there is no God for me I really have no idea what you think.
No they are not.
If you like that approach why no present it as a proposition...Say...If I would ask such and such you may answer such and such well my proposition is just like that etc.
Can you not see the question approach makes it appear that you are trying to be mysterious...you may not be but that becomes the impression at best at worst it seems evasive. Neither is helpful to you or your audience.
Well of course it is ..it is my view ones brain does what we ask and will opperate at a subconscious level to give us what we ask...I lose weight simply by looking inbthe mirror and telling myself that I am losing weight...that really happens and indicates the brain somehow works to deliver our expectation.
I visualise anything I want and finally it becomes mine..
So there is more going on than we think ...and I have no doubt that if I asked God into my life my brain would deliver that condition but unlike the weight lose this delivery is a mere delussion.
I have been there..once I even thought God was talking to me..
Alone in the bush obviously I had gone cabin crazy but thankfully I had something left that enabled me to realise ones mind can play tricks.
Take what I say whatever way you like but deluding oneself is just terrible...nothing takes more away from who you are than self delussion.
And realise you can talk yourself into believing anything but holding a firm grip on reality must be ones goal.
I just think it is so sad when folk kid themselves...think of guys who think they are Gods gift to the ladies when in fact the ladies think they are creepy...or someone who thinks they sing well when they are tone deaf...and the sadest thing is most folk just laugh and let them make fools of themselves...
Oh sometimes you sound rather "special".
We have a cat that is "special" as he wont eat raw meat and drinks pinapple juice..."very special".
Its about impressions.
I said to a mate that no one ever picked a fight with me in any of the pubs that I once went to...he looked at me as if I had missed something..yeh I wonder why he said people are scared of you...I was crushed...I thought I came over friendly and kind because that how I see me...how many times have I said I am kind..that what I see...but sadly I look intimidating...I am not but its how others pick up on your vibes.
You gotta take that on board you are who others see.
I see that in you but sometimes due to your belief that a question is a good answer I see someone else.
And I certainly "feel" you are a decent human being.
Thanks for chatting I must say it is pleasant.
That wasn't what was being asserted.
You said you didn't think you were 'pushing'. Gas-lighting is an intimidation tactic.
Right up there with a cartoon just posted
I don't want to offend you right before they offend you
I'm not being evasive right before evading
Most times, in my experience you can't even get a direct yes / no answer because the question being asked needs to be defined or the answer "is more complicated than a simple yes / no"
Nooooo. More delaying and evasive. Attempts to shift the burden of proof
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I think the problem is that god is a matter of the heart, not a matter of words.
It's not really something that is suitable for analysis and discussion.
You guys are funny. I tell you God loves you and you act as though I've stepped on your toe. If you can entertain the idea that God exists, maybe also consider the possibility that such a god doesn't hate you.
I'm not certain I should continue posting to these threads. I enjoy discussing the topic, but possibly I'm driving a wedge between you and your spiritual self, which isn't my intention. Thanks for spending time with me.
I await something that shows the slightest evidence God exists and it nevet comes presumably because there is no evidence.
In any event for the purpose of discussion lets us work from a position where a god exists and ask how does any human know what God expects, wants, needs, and also explain why we are somehow special when millions die in war etc when logic would suggest that someone who cares and has the power could intervene.
Lack of intervention is a give away that there certainly is no God who cares about human suffering and given the theist says God loves humans such lack of intervention would be highly indicative there is indeed no God.
For all the blather sprouting from the various religions about God being everything and everywhere why is it we have nothing tangible at all...
Religion is a comedy act and the believer is the one who gets the pie in the face.
If religion is not dropped the human race is doomed to slide back into the dark ages...which really is exactly what religious folk want...they want to throw out science in favor of writings from the bronze age...it is laughable and terrifying all at once.
Oh I hear that on the 70 th annivetsary of the cteation of Isreal that Jesus will return...when is that? Soon surely...so JC does not return what will be the excuse from the bronze age supporters...they were wrong? Its all made up?,,, what porky can we expect.
The most worrying aspect about any theist is they really believe they are right, that the bible is right and so everyone else is wrong...look how that has gone in the past...kill the unbeliever...I sence the dark ages are upon us.
And with Rome threatening to fall one can only wonder just how far off is the colapse of everything.
Jan is right the end times are arriving ...praise the Lord.
I am so glad that you and Jan came to my attention because you have caused me to look at the US and the obvious high number of religious folk and realise just how bad a situation we face.
I listen to folk on youtube defending slavery because its in the bible, I see the creation museum and realise for such a thing to exist the number of rat bags is way past what I previously thought...and to think that some of the politicians in US think the bible is correct really is alarming.
Everyone focuses on Trump as the problem but the teality he is but a symptom of the disease that is rotting away the US and therefore world.
It seems ignorance is the highest virtue for the bulk of the nation.
So thank you Bowser and Jan for without you sparking my intetest I would not know what I know because you caused me to look at a problem non religious folk ignore. ...thank you...sincerely thank you.
And if I told you (note you are telling us something you cannot prove - telling - not explaining - bit aloof - parent or teacher / child authority type of relationship implied), if I told you the devil will take your soul - no heaven for you?
Ask for proof?
Request HOW do I KNOW?
Other? (please specify)
Rhetorical question - answer at your own discretion
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When someone falls victim to a con artist they often will not report the crime because they realise just what a fool they have been.
They become ashamed that they could be so stupid and understandably want to keep their stupidity secret.
I think what operates with religious folk is even if they start to think and have doubts the realisation that they may have been conned prevents them from admitting to themselves they have indeed been taken in for years by the biggest lie ever told.
For those who escape it must be so hard to review the godstories and wonder how they could have believed stuff from the bronze age as reliable knowledge and how they must wonder how stupid their lines were in the past when they defended their faith.
I mean just how stupid would you feel.
Imagine being a Mormon and realising it is a con job..would you feel stupid or what...the golden bible, the hat over the face of Joe Smith to interpret the golden bible...the American Indians being a lost tribe of Isreal...and I think their god lives on a nearby planet...and then to tally the 10% loss of wealth over the years.
Imagine a reformed christian( as in left the flock) must think...God came to Earth and had a son who was to die for the sins of man.
"What the F... was I thinking" would be going over and over in their heads.
I would like to change that old line..."there are lies, there are damn lies and there are statistics" and add "but the greatest lie of all is religion".
Who would want to be associated with any of these folk.
The problem isn't that I fail to see blue. The problem is that I fail to see unicorns while you insist that we're all immersed in unicorns.
The trouble with being immersed in something is that you can't see outside it. Is it really a bad thing if some of us can't see the inside of the box you're in?
It's beside the point. Does it exist at all, then we can talk about whether it's personally attractive.
I can't take this any further. They say those who search will find. I found it. If you are genuinely wanting it, I have to believe you will find it too. I am no more worthy than anyone else.
Best wishes, Spider
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