US and Isreal - Why?

Discussion in 'World Events' started by aaqucnaona, Oct 18, 2012.

  1. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,296
    You know full-well how it works - YOU made the original claim here so it's up to YOU to prove YOUR assertions, not me.

    But it's moot now since Chipz shot you down in flames! Pay particular attention to his final statement PLUS the fact that *rigged* elections hardly are a mark of a true democratic government.
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,296
    My, my! Just look at the shade-tree hick lawyer here! He's doing nothing but parroting what he's read on anti-Jewish websites. What a waste!!!! But then again, he's just as good at spreading and repeating nonsense as a presidential debate.
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,087
    Actually a good chunk of SG's comment is accurate. Much of the opposition to Israel is religious in nature - this integrates strongly into ME politics - and there's little doubt that an attitude of religious supremacism is widespread and well-ingrained in ME countries. Actually, there's no doubt about it whatsoever. The Israelis may be an intelligence threat, which would be no surprise. As for your shrill claims about Israel killing the most Americans - please, get over USS Liberty. It was a mistake. It was not the result of a concerted or ongoing Israeli policy to kill Americans.

    As for the tit coming out of the mouth, what's the score on the new Brotherhood-motivated Egyptian regime?

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    Can we stop transfer payments now?

    Shalom.
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,308
    you know before you criticze people perhaps you should cover your own ass. given the fact you have made grossly inaccurate staements about the Israelis conquest of palestine not to mention you in the past have shown your self to lazy to check bibliographies you shoun't be going after anyone. and yawn the same tired anyone who criticizes Israel must be anti semitic.
     
  8. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    53,966
    Put up or shut up.
     
  9. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,308
    no it isn't.
    no most of the opposition to Israel is ideological in nature. the religion of Israel is irrelevant. it could have been any other religion and acted in the same manner and been viewed the same way. of course it has nothing to do with the naked agression ISrael showed in its conquest of palestine
    No it wasn't. I've seen picture of the liberty and the ship it was "mistaken" for and am able to clearly tell the two apart. if I can do it supposedly well trained aviators should as well. not to mention the crassness of an american accepting the official line of a foriegn government who attacked an american naval vessal and not the people attacked. but I digress. while the casualities of the liberty attach were high they were not what I was refering to. hell the liberty accounts for maybe 5% of Israel's american death toll we can link to their actions. I'm refering to Israel's spying and turning information over to the soviets. over a hundred americans dead and over 1000 assets with their familys killed. I'm sorry if it hurts your sensibilities but they have killed americans knowing they were putting them at risk.
    you do they kill are assets in the middle east right? you might be willing to ignore the patterns of behavior but I'm not and neither is the US intelligence community.
     
  10. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,308
  11. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,391
    You have yet to tell me what parts of my assertions, if any, you materially disagree with. If you want to engage in good faith, and tell me what it is that you disagree with, then you'd have some grounds to demand that I back my response with some substance. But as it is, you are refusing repeated requests to merely inform me of what your position is and how it materially differs from what I've stated. Instead, you are just baiting and insulting. This is trolling.

    If you are claiming that the recent elections in Iraq, Libya and Egypt were "rigged," then that is an assertion that you are going to have to support. The consensus accounts in the press portray those elections as free and fair. Neither you nor Chipz has provided any evidence of such "rigging" - Chipz doesn't even claim that those elections were rigged, note - so until you do I remain unimpressed.
     
  12. CptBork Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,355
    Got a source?

    Who, Truman? What exactly is it they said, what's the quote?
     
  13. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    53,966
    You are only proving why our relationship is so close, there are few better at intelligence than the Israelis. Of course that can be problematic if they turn their attention towards us, but hey, that's the way it goes.
     
  14. CptBork Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,355
    I have a pretty hard time believing that America's policies to Israel are dictated by Jewish Illuminati money. If they had that much wealth and control, the Jews would just send their money directly over to Israel instead of spending countless billions buying sports teams and useless shares in Bernie Madoff's stock portfolios, etc. It would make far more sense for Israel in that case, because there wouldn't be anything for disgruntled wild-eyed teenagers with ADHD to suspect, complain about and begrudge for the rest of their lives. US leaders would then be free to dump even more useless billions into buying votes from gas-guzzling Nebraska corn ethanol farmers.

    I know $3 billion a year seems like a humongous chunk of change to most of us ordinary everyday unremarkable peasants, but it's peanuts in the grand scheme of things. What shocks me is more how little the US and other western countries spend in international aid on the whole, considering the overall size of their economies. If the US cut aid to Egypt and Israel or spent more aid dollars elsewhere, it really wouldn't change anything on the ground in Israel aside from some people having to make due with buying a less expensive automobile until their economy grows to wipe out the foreign aid losses a few years later. In Egypt on the other hand it would create some chaos for American influence on that country, but that would be a problem for US oil companies far more than Israelis.
     
  15. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,087
    Actually it was. I guess we can go round and round here.

    Religion is an ideology, or certainly in this case. When political and religious figures in the ME talk about retaking Jerusalem as a religious duty, it isn't hard to fill in the lines.

    As for that conquest, we've been over the multifarious evidence of aggression on the Arab side here before. Perhaps Israel shouldn't have been allowed to keep that territory. Then again, if they lost so much as a single war there, that would be the end of Israel permanently, and possibly of many of the Jews there. There appears to be more outrage directed at that in the ME than at a contemporary - and probably more severe - genocide, the Holocaust against the Armenians. That was naked aggression also, yet raises not a peep.

    Sitting in your living room, sure. I recommend you read the wiki entry on it.

    As for American spy assets, I'd be interested to see your information.

    So the alleged endangerment of US spy assets - which must be Americans necessarily? - means that Israel has in place a concerted or ongoing Israeli policy to kill Americans? Have Americans similarly endangered their assets, in the spy game?
     
  16. CptBork Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,355
    Perhaps then you can settle once and for all whether JFK was really assassinated by aliens, or whether it's really Bin Laden in all those Bin Laden videos. The world awaits your novel conclusions with baited breath.
     
  17. RoccoR Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    144
    CptBork, et al,

    Everyone is a threat to the US in one way or another. The US is the #2 most paranoid country in the world.

    (COMMENT)

    As far as espionage goes, it has been long understood that Israel (quite blatantly) conducts various espionage operations in the US on numerous types of target; political, military, economic, industrial and commercial. This has been true (at least) since I was a young Counterintelligence (CI) Agent in the '70s. It is not the only threat, since we have to defend against so many. But, we are an easy target. US CI activities a very segmented and quite disorganized, and so much of the defensive effort is left to the FBI. The Army's CI apparatus is probably the most inefficient and least coherent.


    Israel is focused in its espionage efforts. So, the geographic threat is less, the greater the disconnect to its primary region of interest. That is where counties like China become more the threat.

    (COMMENT)
    BLUF: There are fears growing on this very issue.

    I'm not sure if any one President can be held blame for this theory. But clearly, there are a number of knowledgeable politico's that have raised there eyebrows concerning the growing demographics of the American Arab Voting Bloc. In the half century since the creation of the State of Israel, the US ethnic population of Arab-Americans has quadrupled.

    Even though the slice of the population is only about 1%, there are number of institutions that are now studying the future impact of the growth in ethnically Arab communities. There is even a concern that, eventually, the Arab Bloc might begin to exert a change in politics that will effect foreign policy and alter the view towards support to Israel.

    References:

    While Cardinal Peter Turkson had to recant and apologize for the screening of the video, the entire episode is merely an example of how sensitive the topic has become and how exceptionally afraid the world community is from retaliation by the Arab Community in general.

    Most Respectfully,
    R
     
  18. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,308
    um there goes that Israeli excecptionalism again. they aren't that great at intell. didn't that fiasco with the passports show that. china is good we aren't exactly friends with them. their is a relationship but it isn't a close one nor is Israel anything close to loyal.
     
  19. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,308
    you don't need a lot of money or influence to push policy in absolute terms. you just need more than everyone else concerned with it. and considering jewish voters and money to support ISrael are more than arab votes and money jews win.
     
  20. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,828
    Yep. It's actually scary to watch congress stand and applause the prime minister of Israel as if he were Jesus Christ or something. It makes me question what it is we get exactly from Israel other than the potential for more war in the Middle East?
     
  21. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,308
    wonder the samething my self. it feels like all the benefits in the relationship are for Israel and all the costs are for America.
     
  22. StrawDog disseminated primatemaia Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,373
    Now you know better than that. What actually happend is that the Zionists which became Israel, established a homeland by force in occupied Palestine chasing and murdering the locals off the land. Thats what pissed and still pisses them off.

    Do you not find it ironic that what you are saying about Islamic "culture", is identical to the Jewish Zionist "the chosen people" worldview?

    No?
     
  23. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,087
    I think the larger issue of the relentless persecution of indigenous Jews in Palestine is being overlooked. "Chasing and murdering the locals off the land" was of old date there when Israel was formed. People ask: "why military force"? Nebi Musa is a good answer.
     

Share This Page