US is no longer a democracy...

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Mrs.Lucysnow, May 28, 2014.

  1. Arne Saknussemm trying to figure it all out Valued Senior Member

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    And did they find them?
     
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  3. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    It died when the encampments were raided. What does that have to do with the study in the OP? Are you comfortable with their findings? The citizens in those encampments were and are like you, the oligarchs are not. I don't care how conservative you think you are, it does not make you part of the elite. It also doesn't make you less vulnerable to the loss of power taking place in the US.

    @Arne Saknussemm "And did they find them?"

    LOL!

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  5. Arne Saknussemm trying to figure it all out Valued Senior Member

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    Oh, LOL! I thought you had me confused with some teabag republican.

    When I asked, if they found jobs, I meant were they part-time at McDonald's where the mcD corporation advises anyone who works there (even full time, even as managers) that they apply for food stamps.
     
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  7. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    The number of homeless people sleeping in New York City shelters has risen to a record of more than 50,000 people a night, according to a new report. The Coalition for the Homeless released the report based on city data Tuesday, which stated that an average of 50,135 people per night slept in shelters in January, including 21,000 CHILDREN. The number is a 19 percent jump from a year ago when the population was approximately 42,000, and a 61 percent jump from a decade earlier when the number was under 13,000. Here's the weirdest part “more than one out of four families in shelters, 28 percent, include at least one employed adult, city figures show, and 16 percent of single adults in shelters hold jobs”. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/18/n...mean-having-a-home.html?pagewanted=2&_r=2&hp&

    'Move to America where you are free to work and be homeless at the same time'. Sweet. You can ask Arne to pass along that ice cream now. Maybe we'll all get lucky and he'll pass it on like Jesus on the mount.
     
  8. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

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    Since I'm sure most majored in Incan Literature and Art History, I'm happy to report that yes, most found jobs at McDonalds!
     
  9. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    The USA never was a democracy & was not intended to be. "All men are created equal" meant all free white males over 21 of some significant wealth or property. Certainly cannot start a democracy with a constitution which counts some person as equal to less than 1 of another person & which does not criminalize the clear & present slavery.

    It seems most people cannot live without blind belief & farcical fantasy, they cannot face reality so they must pretend or die.
     
  10. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    You are correct, it has always been an oligarchy. It hasn't changed in that regard. Through the years and until the recent rise of the Republican war on voters, the right to vote had been greatly expanded. And it is true that all votes are not equal...this one man one vote ideal has never been a part of American body politic. But that doesn't mean it cannot change or shouldn't change. And it doesn't mean that average folk don't have a say in our government. Because they do. It's just their voices are drowned out by all the special interest money, the deceptions and corruption. I think election reform is vital for the continued strength of the nation.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2014
  11. Arne Saknussemm trying to figure it all out Valued Senior Member

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    As George Orwell put it in Animal Farm: 'All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others'
     
  12. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    If the founders had wanted 1 person 1 vote, they would not have had the electoral college.
     
  13. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    It never was a true democracy. It has always been primarily a republic.
    They don't pretend anything. They are happy with the way things are. A great many people could care less about our government, and are perfectly happy to elect the most photogenic/best advertised candidate. If at any point they change their minds they could replace them all within 6 years or so.
    In other words, they have all the power - they simply don't feel like using it. Too much work.
    That has nothing to do with it. The US feels that they need to be a surveillance state because after 9/11 people demanded it - and they got exactly what they asked for.
     
  14. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    The govt claims people demanded it. The US govt was a surveillance state long long before that. That is just 1 more lame excuse.
     
  15. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    They did. The Patriot Act enjoyed majority support when it was first proposed. In a poll in 2001, only 49% of Americans wanted to protect our civil liberties in the war on terror. When you can't even get a majority of Americans to want to protect our privacy - you're going to lose your privacy.

    We get what we ask for.
    Yes, we have been asking for this for a long time. Look at the support Joe McCarthy enjoyed during his attacks on civil liberties.
     
  16. quinnsong Valued Senior Member

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    Maybe a "fifth column" could be part of the solution.
     
  17. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Those were the ones that majored in something - unemployment among the children of the wealthy (as college grads tend to be these days) is not too bad, regardless of major.

    Those would not be the same people you were referring to earlier, of course, whose unemployment benefits ran out. The people you were referring to by that mostly did not have the privilege of "majoring", as their parents were not wealthy and they were not young. For an idea of where they went, take a look at the disability rolls, early retirement on smaller SS rates, rise in multigenerational households, prison rolls, homeless censuses, food shelf dependents, net immigration numbers, part-time work censuses, and so forth.

    American workers made serious wage gains from 1945 until 1980 or so, matching the productivity gains of the economy as a whole.

    Few employees have much say in how their pension funds are run - thieving the pension funds is one of the standard executive exploits in the US, so common as to almost pass unremarked these days. As far as life savings, middle class Americans had traditionally stashed them in their house equity - I'm not sure it's reasonable to expect people to understand how it is that equity in their house is a risky gamble vulnerable to financial manipulation and theft. What are they supposed to put their life savings in - their mattresses? Must we all become jobbers to avoid being jobbed? I can pass on a common joke among professional financial manipulators: "What starts with an 'f' and ends with a 'k' and means you're getting screwed? 401-K" Do you think they know whereof they speak, these pros?

    In my last local Congressional Rep race, the challenger was facing an incumbent backed by more than 14 million dollars in campaign funds.

    The Americans who allegedly supported the Patriot Act did not know what was in it, because they were deliberately deceived in that respect - as were many of the politicians voting on it, or bullied in the rush (it had been prepared, most of it, long before 9/11). And even the deceived about the legal Act did not want the illegal and clandestine surveillance activities also launched by the US government at that time, the setup of black site "interrogation" centers, the fraud and corruption of the military/industrial complex that got its modern grip then, etc.

    You can, and I do, blame Americans for not knowing or recognizing what was going on pretty openly, voting for obvious liars pandering to their bigotries and meannesses, planting their heads in their asses and refusing to look around, but you can't claim they wanted or asked for this mess. They still don't recognize or admit what it was they got when they voted for Reagan, for Chrissake, and that was thirty years ago. Their complicity is honest denial, honest ignorance, however inexcusable that may be.

    They are not in control of their awareness of information, their choices. An oligarchy is.
     
  18. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    Amen to that.
     

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