USA Religous right to Refuse Service to a Customer

Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by RainbowSingularity, Jun 5, 2018.

  1. RainbowSingularity Registered Senior Member

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  3. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    Victory of fiction over fact, yet again.
     
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  5. RainbowSingularity Registered Senior Member

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    so you are saying the ruling is incorrect and has been made up and is wrong ?
    you are saying the supreme court judges make up fiction for legal rulings ?
     
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  7. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    The fiction is in the religion.
     
  8. Michael 345 Looking for Bali in Nov Valued Senior Member

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    Yes and no

    There were plenty of baked cakes in the shop he would have sold them

    It seems NOT to be about cake as such

    More about ARTISTIC work involved in SPECIFIC type of cake

    I think the ruling reflected the concept of ANY style of artists not being forced (in the legal sense) to produce a work of art FOR ANY REASON

    This is a gay rights beat up

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  9. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    No shirt
    No shoes
    No service
     
  10. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    The artist has a right to not make a cake he disagrees with. However, if he would have sold the exact same cake to a straight couple, then he is guilty of discrimination.

    Did they ask for something offensive on the cake?
     
  11. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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  12. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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  13. Michael 345 Looking for Bali in Nov Valued Senior Member

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    Agree

    As I also understand baker would also be prepared to make cake for them for future events - just not the wedding

    Beat up

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  14. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    Genesis 2:24
    Matthew 19:4-5
    add
    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;..."
    into the mix
    and you have an exercise in religious freedom
     
  15. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    I guess they should be happy that he only refused to bake a cake. He could have stoned them... That would fall under the free exercise of religion, right?
     
  16. RainbowSingularity Registered Senior Member

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    "cakes made to order"
    except for those we dont not wish to make.


    equally had the gay couple be running a cake shop and the christian customer or jewish customer or islamic customer said it was for a baptism, bar mitzvah, ramadan party, the shop owner can refuse to sell them the cake on religous grounds ?

    do US christian bakers also refuse to decorate cakes with witches ?

    if a financial company refuse to lend to a customer and the service person says its because they look like a bad risk and have dodgey account behaviour so look untrustworthy...
    the customer would sue.

    if the baker refused to make the cake and then made a personal statement about objecting to same sex marriage...

    what if the baker refused to put a black & white couple of the cake saying they do not beleive in bi-racial marriage ?

    would that be legally equal ?

    i think the level of acceptance of bias is shocking.


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    should they be alowed to refuse service ?
    sure yes
    should they be allowed to prosthelytize the customer over the counter as a excuse ?
    NO !
    there should be sme type of official warning or nominal fine to legally define the boundary between freedom and outward projection of action toward people.
    thus the customer should be allowed to defend themselves.
     
  17. Michael 345 Looking for Bali in Nov Valued Senior Member

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    I would contend yes

    You would not be entitled to go to a Muslim sandwich shop and request a bacon sandwich

    Although I have been served bacon by muslims because the market rules

    Nothing like a dose of reality to dispel religion (caution dosage may vary according to strength of belief - argument is not recommended)

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  18. RainbowSingularity Registered Senior Member

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    i have met a few muslims & hindus who sell alcahol.
    e.g jewish pig farmers selling wholesale to muslim retailers ?(money is king)

    money makes the world go round(unles your a flat earther)

    i think the premise here is access of rights.
    the citizen should have access to the shop counter.
    the shop worker should have the right to refuse service(or entry to an R18 shop) and have the right to eject the citizen by verbal request.

    the citizen should have the right to go about their business without being prosthelytized
    (i think street corner preachers should be arrested & removed, while i do not object to people silently handing out religous(or political) material in the street that is not R13 or above & clearly marked as religous[like a star or cross or tree or yin/yan etc])

    while typing this out i realise many people would not be able to follow this post,
    while claiming it as being over complicated because they are only concerned with themselves(narcissistic normalcy).
     
  19. gamelord Registered Senior Member

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    Businesses, should have the right to choose whether or not who they sell a product to. If they want to lose money and PR by being a bigot, LGBTs can give their money to people who will build them a cake full of didlos and sperm icing.

    I think this whole problem arises from a lack of empathy.
    Personally, I'm not a sheltered religious child who can't handle the sight of a dildo. I would be more than happy to put a didlo on a cake for a gay. More money for me.
    But at the same time, people need to recognize that religious people have pathetic, sheltered minds that are easily damaged from such images. People can't empathize with how sheltered and sensitive religious folk are.
     
  20. RainbowSingularity Registered Senior Member

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    i suggest as an idea, if the image is damaging, there must be pre-conditioning to value & assign the image to a pre existing value.

    thus brain washing.
     
  21. gamelord Registered Senior Member

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    Religion most certainly is brainwashing and that is why it should be considered unethical to teach it to children.

    As far as image damage, some images are inherently damaging, humans are not tabula rasa, pre-brainwashing is not required for an image to traumatize.
     
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  22. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    Like selling houses to black people? No.
     
  23. gamelord Registered Senior Member

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    If they refuse to sell to well-groomed, nice black families who will take care of the house, then they will lose PR and suffer a boycott from the equality promoters. The government should not be given added power to intefere in people's lives as most of the government is racist anyway so giving the government power is not going to help blacks in the long run.

    Now if there is a giant, Monopoly cabal of the home owning elite, and 100% of this cabal is racist and refuses to sell to blacks...

    Then the Government should step in to disrupt the Monopoly and that is the problem with capitalism as it creates monopolies which are inherent injustice.

    But of course as well know big daddy state and the liberals will do nothing to stop Monopolies as the world is ran and controlled by only 6 major corporations, Viacom, Ted Turner, Disney, etc.

    There is nothing stopping blacks from creating their own homes, starting their own businesses, and starting a movement to sell to other blacks.
    Except of course there is, immense fees, regulations, licensing and bylaws required by the government to start your own business, of course putting a damper on entrepreneurs and blacks wanting to "sock it to the man" and start their own community so to speak.
     

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