Virgin birth

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Saint, Dec 3, 2013.

  1. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    There's no way arauca is 77.
     
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  3. Saint Valued Senior Member

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    Scientifically, is virgin birth possible?
     
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  5. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Quite literally yes. The procedure called IUI can allow a virgin to get pregnant and give birth. This isn't hard; you could do it with a straw and a little luck.
     
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  7. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    James R:Did Mark mention a virgin birth?
    Mark might have been a contemporary of Jesus & might have met him. I think his gospel predated Mathew's, in spite of being second in the Bible.

    BTW: Being an atheist, my interest in such subject matter is sociological/historical.
     
  8. Saint Valued Senior Member

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    Where did Jesus get his Y chromosome?
     
  9. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Dinosaur:

    You're right that Mark was the first gospel written. The other gospel writers were no doubt aware of it.

    I don't think Mark talks very much about Jesus's conception and birth.

    I think the whole "virgin" thing dates back to a mistranslation of a Hebrew term meaning "young woman" anyway.
     
  10. Saint Valued Senior Member

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  11. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

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    Why did the Nazi's worship Hitler? Why did the Greeks worship the Pantheons? Why did the Aztecs worship the Sun and Moon?

    Often, it's a way of finding substance and purpose in life for things that cannot otherwise be explained, or a point of rally.
     
  12. Sorcerer Put a Spell on you Registered Senior Member

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    I'm not sure the Nazis worshipped Hitler like a god, more as a leader and focal point, surely?
     
  13. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

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    To an extent - they were looking for someone to rally behind, some cause to give them hope or reason... they found it in Hitler and blaming the Jews/Gays/Et All in the Nazi party... I have to think, though, that many of them would not have acted that way had they not utterly revered Hitler... but I can't know for sure.
     
  14. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Most likely the same way every male does.
     
  15. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Who really cares? If people want to believe in the virgin birth of Christ, so be it. I see no harm in it. However, I think it far more likely that Jesus had a mortal father and mother. The New Testament documents the existence of Jesus's siblings, requiring the Church to use explanations which are not found in the Bible to rationalize and perpetuate the virgin birth belief. This belief in a virgin birth probably had more to do with the Hellenization of the Christ and revision of the religion (e.g. gentile inclusion) brought about by Paul, than historical fact.
     
  16. Syne Sine qua non Valued Senior Member

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    I agree. It really does not matter, and any reasonable explanation is likely. The possible divinity of Jesus does not rely solely upon the absence of a mortal father.

    Pretty good point about the Hellenization, as it was a typical Greek idea that demigods were physically fathered by a god.
     
  17. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    MaZulu:Do you have any citations for the following?
    Is it the atheists you hate or did they influence you to hate theists?

    I happen to be an atheist. My code of ethics & behavior tends to be better than that of some theists I know & at least as good as that of many theists.

    The few atheists I know are also people with good ethics & behavior.

    Saint: The following question does not cause a problem for theists.
    If they believe in the miracle of a virgin birth, they can accept the notion that the miracle included a Y chromosome.
     
  18. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

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    *************
    M*W: First, let's assume for just a moment, the Virgin Mary, Jesus, Matthew and Luke, et al., were real people. They didn't live at the same time or place. Jesus was never in the presence of the Apostles, and the stories about them were created long after Jesus was gone. There is some great misunderstanding about the word/title "virgin." It is simply a title for a young woman of marriageable age. It has nothing to do with having sex and losing her "virginity." Nothing.

    The first book to be written and accepted into the NT was Mark at about 70 AD. Jerusalem had just been sacked and the people scattered everywhere. So all these stories about Jerusalem and other places in the Holy Land were made up. If I recall, Paul completed the Epistles by 68 AD (when he was put to death). (If you believe that Paul was human--I don't). Then, conveniently, Mary just disappeared when she was assumed into heaven. Jesus himself disappeared into thin air, so there is no real human evidence of either of them to be found. That's why I am not surprised at all the confusion surrounding these particular myths.
     
  19. pluto2 Registered Senior Member

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    How many people in the world are really virgins their entire life and it is not by their choice?

    I know that there is a very high chance that I will become a 100 year-old virgin without getting the chance to have any positive interaction with women. And it's definitely not by choice.

    I am not just attractive to women and there is nothing or not much that I can do about it except perhaps becoming very rich and getting plastic surgery.
     
  20. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Probably more than you imagine.
    But there is probably some choice nevertheless.
    What makes you think you will live to 100?
    Why cant you have positive interaction?
    Dont underestimate how being decent and good counts.
    Treat them politely and with respect and kindness and you may find they like you not withstanding whatever you perceive currently to be a problem.
    Look I dont know you or the problem you feel you have but you gotto stop this negative self talk.
    Please be more positive and count your blessings being confident and showing high self esteem wins people over.
    Alex
     
  21. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    And folk will say I am crazy but look in the mirror and see who you wish to be... I am convinced over time you can manage your appearance but if nothing else you may feel better about yourself.
    But you must do it every day year after year.. I had a thing that I thought I would get a double or triple chin. I looked and said day afterday to myself... You have a sharp chin... Well under my beard I have the chin and jar of a teenager... And about 15 years ago, maybe less I started saying... Your hair is getting blacker... I am near 70 and my hair on my head is black. I only looked at my head so my beard went grey.
    Same with physic I tell myself I stand straight and even with crook legs I am not round shouldered or do I hunch my back.
    But its every day...but I really believe it works
    Alex
     
  22. pluto2 Registered Senior Member

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    I disagree. Some people really do not have much choice in the matter if they are regarded as unattractive by the opposite sex.

    I think you are just being optimistic but excessive optimism eventually leads to disappointment.
     
  23. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Ok but try to remain reasonably optimistic.
    Alex
     

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