Was Cho Seung-hui decision rational or irrational?

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by draqon, Apr 19, 2007.

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Was Cho Seung-hui's decision rational or irrational?

  1. rational

    42.4%
  2. irrational

    57.6%
  1. Saquist Banned Banned

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    3,256
    It's not entirely subjective...It is based on established societal norms...It's not as though we can not make a determination of behavior.
     
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  3. Jeremyhfht Registered Senior Member

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    Think about subjectivity, though. Social "norms" differ from culture to culture. They are subjective to each culture and thought pattern.
     
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  5. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

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    Very sorry but you are totally wrong.


    As to assumptions, you're quite wrong again - he left plenty of evidence as to how faulty his mental processes were. So we don't need to be able to question him on that. As a minor point, you might also consider that fully rational people do not stalk others. And we have clear evidence that he did that also.

    If we were to use your criteria for irrational behavor (read that as mentally imbalanced or possessing a mental defect) there would be NO irrational people in the entire world!! You need to carefully consider what you're saying.
     
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  7. Jeremyhfht Registered Senior Member

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    I did not claim to be perfectly correct, nor that you were perfectly wrong. But saying that I am "totally wrong" on the premise that you are totally correct, is not logical.

    Your statements hold weight Only if subjectivity is ignored. If you need me to explain my model of human-subjective nature, do PM me. As then you might understand my argument.

    His evidence merely points to his feelings. Not what he was thinking completely. He showed great hate for many things, but he did not tell the basis of that hate. As far as I know, anyway.

    Overall, you cannot assume anything from the video's, other then what the video's tell you, and what his emotions and such show. To do so would be illogical.

    claiming he was of faulty mind is subjective to your thinking. This is why it's illogical to claim he was in a faulty mindset.

    Link? The news articles I keep reading about it do not say that.

    Another thing, is that you've basically called every policemen that stalks a criminal a psycho. Good job.

    Need I repeat myself? Correlation. Does not. Imply. Causation.

    Quite the opposite. I merely do not view people with psychological issues as irrational. In fact many are very brilliant. I do not view them as irrational, because it's irrational to do so (as I explained).

    There are a good deal of irrational people in the world. The fact you assume my criteria would mean there wouldn't be any...shows an utter ignorance of what my criteria is.

    I could say the same for you.

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  8. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

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    Oh, come now! One would get the distinct impression that you know very little about basic psychology, society and people in general. Or have you just not gotten that far in school yet? I was originally thinking you were about 20 - 25 but I'm beginning to feel that I was wrong about that.

    As to his stalking the two girls, where in the world have you been??? It's been included in practically every news story I've heard or read! But in a effort to catch you up with the rest of us, there's a brief mention of it right at the top of this page: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18248374/page/2/
     
  9. Jeremyhfht Registered Senior Member

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    386
    Ad-hominem. This adds nothing to the discussion, and attacks me on a personal level.

    You have made no points at all.

    I see. I read BBC rather than MSNBC. BBC said that two girls reported him for bad behavior towards them (something like that).

    I heard nothing of stalking.
     
  10. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

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    10,296
    Not in the least. It's just that I'm beginning to wonder about what qualifications you have to be making such bold and rather sensless statements. That's generally the hallmark of the young and not well educated (yet). And there's nothing wrong with being young, either. It's just that they should spend more time asking and studying rather than stating.
     
  11. darksidZz Valued Senior Member

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    Kissy Kissy Makes Me Happy
     
  12. Jeremyhfht Registered Senior Member

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    386
    Another personal attack that adds nothing to the conversation.

    Troll.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
     
  13. peta9 Registered Senior Member

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    2,326
    For someone who purports to be well-educated and have life experience, you sure have shallow perception.

    I guess it never occured to you that his behavior might also be due to his disability and emotional development of a child. After all, he had an imaginary girlfriend. You make it sound as if it was completely malicious.

    You also can't seem to read between the lines and take everything at face value. Further information has leaked that his family purposefully isolated themselves, were ashamed of Cho, did not really seek help for him, and his sister did not even talk of her family either. The korean-american community called them a "ghost" and mentioned how "strange" it is for a family to not be known at all. Also even cruel or nonloving families are good at appearing otherwise.

    His father always bragged about his daughter who attended Princeton, never mentioning a word of Cho or anything else. They thrust this autistic kid into the world to cope on his own and those were the consequences.

    It's suspicious to me and my instincts are usually right on. I think this family was ashamed of Cho, did not love him, did not care to seek help much, was intolerant of any disability which would put a strain on him and sense of never living up or being accepted by his family deep inside. I think they are a bad family and no wonder poor Cho was desperately seeking love or doing attention-getting strange confused pranks. Poor baby, i hope he is in a better place. I can't blame him entirely for what he did. he was like a disturbed child, the psychologist said so. You can be one mental age and another emotional one, but the emotional age is what drives your personality and what you decide to do.

    I think they were ashamed and all they cared about was outward appearance and shallow success!! while Cho suffered emotionally starving for real love, while being misunderstood or rejected his peers! That and a disability which affects your personality would drive anybody over the edge from sheer deep despair and eventual hatred of society
     
  14. Jeremyhfht Registered Senior Member

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    386
    Thank you for proving my point.
     
  15. peta9 Registered Senior Member

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    2,326
    Let's shoot these evil fucking monsters. Americans are hypocrites just like any hypocrite. They've got blood on their hands too, they are just pissed it was their own that got shot. Right now as I type their are more murders going on in America than what Cho did. This is just publicized because it is a school shooting and the number of people he killed. Still killing is killing.
     
  16. Saquist Banned Banned

    Messages:
    3,256

    Yet it's not a matter of subjectivity within the culture...
    That's the only reasoning relevent when determining sanity and rationality.
    It is also relevant to consider if the subject in question is fulling informed of the cultural norms...norms with which we establish codes of behavior which laws are derived.
     
  17. Jeremyhfht Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    386
    How is it not? Cultures are subjective.

    Sanity and rationality are different. One can have immense logic capability, but still be considered insane.

    If it was his mental stability? Yes.

    Rationality/irrationality? No. That's my point. This poll is somewhat poorly organized.
     
  18. darksidZz Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,922
    I'm tired of hearing how the polls aren't good, including mine. Why don't you f**king come up with a better one if you want and start your own threads, really I am sick of this stuff, Yes an no answers are normal in a poll, how many choices you guys guys want when there's a determination to be made, I feel frustrated

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    What you want:

    Rational - Based on his perspective
    Rational - Based on societies perspective
    Irrational - Based on his perspective
    Irrational - Based on societies perspective
    etc.
     
  19. fadingCaptain are you a robot? Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,762
    meta,
    "He fought back against a population that was killing him. What did you expect?"

    Please explain how the people he shot were killing him. Complete bullshit.

    dragon,
    "Conclusion: Everything in this world is rational"

    Congrats, you just voided the term "irrational" from any meaning. Perhaps you'd like to call Webster's and inform them?
     
  20. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,296
    My perception is actually quite broad, thank you. And I've NO doubt at all that his parents contributed to his problem! Primarily through inaction and giving him little or no attention or support.

    And speaking of perception, you seem to not perceive that autistic people RARELY ever hurt anyone! Quite the opposite - their response is to run away and hide. This deranged individual had a different problem entirely.

    Tell you what, since you seem so overly concerned with him: how about actually DOING something with your concern BESIDES just whining and running off at the mouth about it??? There are plenty of young kids very much like him (mentally disturbed, withdrawn, ignored, paranoid - even homicidal) locked away today. Why don't you take at least ONE of them under your wing and help them? If you were to do that, it would change my opinion of you considerably!!!!!!!
     
  21. Jeremyhfht Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    386
    I am. I'm going to college to be a psychologist.

    Qed. *sips tea*

    P.S: This is another appeal to emotions, combined with an ad-hom. The content of your post is ridiculous.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2007
  22. peta9 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,326
    Wow, I think you need to take medication, you've got some screws loose or you're from a nuthouse.

    Idiot, he could have had more than one disability or disorder. And there are exceptions to every case.

    You are out of line here as my actions in life or what I say isn't up to you to dictate. I don't have to prove myself to you or anyone because your opinion of me is irrevelant. You are a stranger and a nobody. I can talk, whine, rant about anything I want on this forum with moderator consent. Who the hell are you to tell someone what to do. Do it yourself, you confused lunatic.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2007
  23. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,296
    Nope, I don't need any of the above and my mental health is quite fine, thank you.

    Sure, you can say anything you like (so can I) with the same consent. But it's YOU that's raving about the loss of your dear idiot - not me. Therefore your talk is just that - ONLY talk. On the other hand, I've taken in two children over the years that couldn't bear life with their parents. They weren't mentally unstable in any way, just needed a safe haven form those who's only interest was themselves - at the expense of their own kids.

    So while you do NOTHING but blab, blab, blab about how bad THAT fool had it, you also do nothing to help those that need it. That's the precise definition of a loud-mouthed busybody old hypocrite. (Do you need to go look up that big word????)

    So, again, for all of your expressed concern for that one idiot, you bring yourself across as almost a big a fool as he was. Now I know not to believe a single thing you've said here in support of him!!!!!!!!
     

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