Was Satan wrong to demand equal rights in heaven?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Greatest I am, Apr 5, 2015.

  1. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    That sounds a lot more like Christianity. How many statues of Jesus are there? At my high school we had at least a hundred.
     
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  3. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    Yay, I've already got you to reject half the Bible. Only 50% more to go.
     
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  5. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    I would like to reply to this lie.

    Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.

    That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."

    But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

    If all sin by nature then, the sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not sin. That being the case, for God to punish us for following the instincts and natures he put in us would be quite wrong.

    If none ever break from sin, and none do, then one must say that we are born to sin and cannot help but do so.

    Your lie proves my point.

    Regards
    DL
     
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  7. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    That is hilarious. All gods are made up.

    .
     
  8. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    When you have free will and choice, one becomes part of the creative process of nature, and becomes an extension of God, who created the universe out of nothing.

    Computers can do many programmed things, but they lack free will and choice beyond what they are programmed to do. God did not want computer humans; automatons, with good programs, who look alive, but are just robots. God wanted intelligent computer humans, who could think for themselves beyond their original programming.

    Lucifer, who was the first incarnation of Satan, was the morning star. He was part of the process of creation and choice. This is why as Satan; second incarnate, was in heaven. Satan could stimulate deviation from the programming, which is willpower 1.01.

    With creativity and being part of creation, choices, although creative, may not always for the best. A free will computer, that decides to erase itself, sort of defeats the goal of sustained AI. But still, that one act of defiant will and choice, is nevertheless a beginning or its first baby steps. If you had a computer that did this; true AI, it is evil in the sense of all the extra work it will cause you and others, but still, this is a special day.

    With human computers, when the brain started to get will power and started to do mischief, those who are inconvenienced and who see nothing to gain, see this act of change, as evil. But the creative team; God, sees this as wow! God may be responsible for the AI that causes the power outage, but he keeps his eye on the bigger picture, which is computer human willpower, being used for creative good. With that goal in mind, he is able to accept glitches as part of R&D. Jesus loves and forgives because he keep his eye on the goal.
     
  9. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    6,162
    Computers can do things that the programmers never anticipated. Hence the phrase, "It's not a bug; it's a feature." If humans were "programmed" by some "god", they may indeed have capabilities beyond its intentions.
     
  10. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    3,740
    Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.

    That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."

    But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

    If all sin by nature then, the sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not sin. That being the case, for God to punish us for following the instincts and natures he put in us would be quite wrong.

    Regards
    DL
     
  11. wellwisher Banned Banned

    Messages:
    5,160
    Sin is not imputed when there is no law. The tree of knowledge of good and evil is connected to law, which defines good and evil, which, in turn, defines sin. Once a law is created, a new sin is imputed.

    Let me give an example. It was not a sin a few weeks ago to fly the Rebel Flag, over the state capital in South Carolina. Sin is not imputed when there is no law. Eve, which is symbolic of the feminine principle, which is the underlying basis of liberalism, is choosing to make a new law, so sin will be imputed because of the law. Nothing has changed in terms of reality, just the subjectivity induced by law=sin, with the law giving power to the sin. Before the law, there was no good and evil flag.

    If you know anything about the Garden of Eden, God did not want humans to eat of the tree knowledge of good and evil, because law/knowledge of good and evil will impute sin. God preferred moral neutrality, like nature and instinct; tree of life. Ultimate free will is the ability to make any choice, with moral neutrality making this much easier. Once you add human subjective law or knowledge of good and evil; evil flags, then the environment confines choices; slavery. Two week ago I could fly a rebel flag but today this can lead to death, due to the enforcement of the law by amateurs.

    If you look at the PC language police, these laws are based on the most emotional disabled and neurotic people leading the healthy. The healthy can function with any sounds or words, but the law requires they play word games and walk on eggshells ,less the neurotic amp out. A better approach is the healthy show the neurotic how to cope so no law is needed and no sin is imputed. This is not God's doing this, but Satan and Law.

    I
     
  12. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    Hogwash.

    A boulder coming at me will be quite evil to me and there is no law required or in place to make it evil to me.

    Your dissertation is pure biblical garbage. Try thinking on your own.

    That was a great deflection from what the issue at hand was though.

    Regards
    DL
     
  13. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    5,160
    The bible says if one thinks something is evil or unclean, to them it is evil. Most manmade evil is subjective and not objective. If a bolder was coming at you, I would not see that as evil, but as funny. I would prefer you get away, but your reaction of panic and awkward evasion would be hilarious.

    Most of what is called evil is subjective and not objective/universal. The ten commandments had only ten laws. This is all that God gave. The EPA has 70,000 pages of law. Man created 70,000 new sins.

    As far as Satan wanting to be equal to God, this does not stand up to reason. It is analogous to the arguments of cultural diversity, where one wants all cultures be seen as equal. The fact remains, there are first world and fourth world cultures, with first and fourth world results not the same.

    To make all equal can only happen subjectively and not objectively. It means dumbing down the top tier, and propping up the bottom tier to create a subjective illusion. Satan is fourth world compared to first world. Why dumb down God and have a moron rule with equal status? God used natural selection and was selected. It was not artificial selection which also selects subjective evil.
     
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  14. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    Which god are you claiming is not a moron?

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  15. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    Why be ruled at all? Why not throw out all of the alien overlords?
     
  16. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    3,740
    You are talking of equality of outcome while speak of equality of opportunity.

    From what you say of God using natural selection and was selected, you have conclude that he was selected by inferior creatures and I agree and heaven ended with an inferior God due to that fact.

    "It is I who am God; there is none apart from me." When he said this, he sinned against the entirety. And this speech got up to incorruptibility; then there was a voice that came forth from incorruptibility, saying, "You are mistaken, Samael" – which is, "god of the blind."

    Regards
    DL
     
  17. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    And lose Jesus! Heaven forbid.


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    Regards
    DL
     
  18. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Have you seen the original 1967 Peter Cook - Dudley Moore film, "Bedazzled"? Moore is a fellow who can never seem to get what he wants out of life, and Cook is Satan, come to give him a little help... for a price.

    Like all good British comedies of that era, it has some wonderful philosophical interludes. (Monty Python never stopped doing it!) Satan explains the whole "falling from grace" thing by saying, "I'll help you understand this. I'll be God, and you be me." So Satan sits in a very comfortable chair and directs Moore to get down on all fours, circling the chair saying, "You're wonderful. You're splendid. We'd have no joy without you..." etc.

    After five minutes of this, Moore is exhausted. He stops, sits up, catches his breath, and asks, "Couldn't we change roles for a little while?"

    Satan's answer: "That's exactly what I said!"
     
  19. river

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    god though is the fundamental ATTITUDE or MINDSET the Worlds' religions have towards , this " freewill ".
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2015
  20. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    3,740
    Yes and then God gave Satan the power to deceive all of the world, quite the gift, and sent Satan to hurt the world.

    Always a prick that God.

    Regards
    DL
     

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