What are the biological reasons that women reject men?

Discussion in 'Biology & Genetics' started by pluto2, May 26, 2013.

  1. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    I've been accused of this too.

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    Whattttt?
    I've never met anyone who thought like I do about this. I too feel its better to have never loved at all if loss is inevitable.
    We agree on something lol



    you seem like you would be very caring in a relationship.


    Haha I didn't mean you. Being deep is good. But be careful to not over think.

    I think I could be happy "in love" if I knew I wouldn't suffer loss. But it's like gambling and I've never been fond of gambling. Lol
    I play the stock market safe.

    Yeah...guess when you have been hurt ...u get gun shy of a lot if things that require risk.

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  3. Layman Totally Internally Reflected Valued Senior Member

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    Ya, then sometime I wonder if I could go back in time and change things, but that would never be possible. So no amount of thinking about it really can do you much good to what has happened in the past if you cannot go there. Even if you did I don't think you would be able to change your own eigenstate to something other than the current state it is in, and any attempt to alter your own eigenstate in any way could create an effect to where the universe would manifest energy in order to prevent you from changing it into another state, thereby drawing us to this very conversation.

    I think the real problem is that people are not able to quickly learn from their mistakes and then know what to do when they encounter those problems again. It would could worsen the situation by throwing yourself into it over and over again with out any real solution. I hope one day men and women will really start understanding each other and then becoming happier and better off because of it. I think if they really understood everything about each other that they would. They are kind of like two different sides of the same coin, they would just never be able to see eye to eye on the same coin.
     
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  5. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    I think I'm done with this discussion.
    It's just not fruitful to me.
     
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  7. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    "Friend of Bill" refers to a member of Alcoholics Anonymous. "Self inventory" refers to one of the steps in the AA 12 step program.
     
  8. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Oh, I see. I've never been to AA.
    It's a common phrase lol nothing more or less
     
  9. cosmictotem Registered Senior Member

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    Layman, if I may interject once again: I think deep down, though you tell yourself you would like to be with someone (we're all programmed to), you really don't want to be because, if you did, you would be with someone by now. When you express the fear that there are things wrong with you that women would reject you for, what that really is is you unconsciously rejecting those kinds of women. If you observe couples closely you might see that many men and women still interact, meet and pursue relationships with each other despite these and many inadequate and unsavory dating conditions. How do they do it? It's because they are willing to endure the trials to get what they want, to achieve whatever relationship they are looking to achieve. I'm not saying they are right and you are wrong. I think because many are just looking for a superficial relationship, they are not concerned with the intellectual quality or deeper compatibility of the exchange and may suffer because of that later. You don't want to suffer and there's nothing wrong with that.

    But what I'm getting to is that you wrap your head around the possibility that it's you who doesn't want the relationship. Your explanation of why women don't want to be with men is really why you don't want to be with those kind of women. The reason you are even seeing and anticipating these kinds of women (and I don't deny they exist - our society is filled with such shallow women and men), is because your subconscious is trying to tell you that you are not attracted to these kinds of women. And I think the problem is exacerbated by the fact that you may have not explicitly defined to yourself your standards and exactly what kind of woman to which you are attracted. The way you are writing, it sounds like you are lumping all women together and as if there is no woman you would reject, if only they gave you the time of day.

    You need to have firmly defined standards for yourself. Are you able to quickly write off in your mind or inwardly reject a beautiful woman if her morality or intelligence doesn't live up to your standards in those two categories? If you're going to melt every time a beautiful woman is near you who is normally attracted to assholes or the kind of person you're not, then you're going to be very miserable. You have to keep defining and refining the kind of woman that you will allow yourself to be officially attracted to. You have to keep narrowing it down until you are not attracted to women who are not attracted to you. You have to learn how to spot them and cross them off the list when you detect them. If your main complaint is the shallowness of the women who would reject you, you have to grant the kind of woman who wouldn't be shallow about you the moral high ground and you have to give that morality high marks and the reward of your attraction and you have to inwardly give the women who fail to live up to that morality F's.

    This, I think, will help you with how you process rejection internally and transform vulnerability and suffering into personal preference and standards. It builds a stiff upper lip because now you allow yourself to not be attracted to every beautiful woman.

    At this point, I anticipate you will respond to the effect of "What good will it do to define stricter standards for myself if women don't want to be with me anyway?"

    Firstly, you don't want to be with anyone who doesn't want to be with you anyway. Obviously.

    But at a still deeper level, no one really wants to be with anyone. And this is I think at the root of your discontentment. You've made the very, very common mistake that happiness lies outside of ourselves. It's a cliche, but you are not going to find the quality of happiness with someone else than you can with just yourself. No one can. That's the mistake we all make. You are looking for the contentment you already have by yourself and you don't see it and what's making you unhappy about it is the culture and customs that say you should be unhappy about it. Why do you think the wisest among us, the Buddhist monks and nuns go off to meditate and live celibate lives? Because they know something about contentment.

    That doesn't mean you shouldn't hope to find someone that enhances your contentment. But you need not be fearful of it not happening and certainly not in a mad rush to make something "work" that will, ultimately, subtract from your contentment, when everyone's most contented state has always been when we are by ourselves with nature.

    Contentment I've always described as an equation with variables. It can either be a simple equation or a complex equation. People are the variables in our contentment equation. The more variables in the equation, the more complex it becomes and the harder it is to solve. When you're alone, all you have to think about is your own contentment. When you're with someone, your happiness equation suddenly must now be solved for two. When you meet her family, the equation gets bigger and so on...

    So the issues we all have with people are not indicative of our "faults" or who we are but it is the nature of a complex system.

    The solution is to simplify your equation. The simplest equation is yourself. Look at your own experience. When are you unhappy? When you're thinking about other people and your relationship to them.

    You don't need someone to be happy. You need someone to be unhappy.
     
  10. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    I would rather just stay guarded than love and lose, again. I don't know how to change that. I shouldn't have chimed in with this discussion because it upset me.

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    Makes me feel sad.

    Good luck to u layman. And anyone else seeking to find love.
     
  11. schema Registered Member

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    after being married and divorced, I look for ways to avoid love. I am one of those "lets just be friends" type of loser.
     
  12. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Avoiding love doesn't make you a loser.
    It makes you human.
     
  13. schema Registered Member

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    yeah. all part of the human experience I guess.
     
  14. Pithikos Registered Member

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    Did you find any ways to avoid love? Because the only way would be to avoid any contact with females(if you're heterosexual).
     
  15. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    One doesn't have to avoid the opposite sex to avoid love. Falling "in like" is a great thing and having fun. Forming a friendship. But if you are up front with someone from the beginning, it makes things easier. Love is something that can happen if you spend enough quality time with someone but it's not a given, just my opinion.

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  16. turk Registered Member

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    I understand your point. However, I was trying to clarify why I would say sight and smell are the most important factors. I didn't mean in the since you speak, because he was a biological/physiological answer. Something that is not subjective. Like chemistry in the scientific sense, not the metaphorical sense. Scientifically speaking, chemistry is not very subjective. Science is supposed to be as objective as possible. Of course there is much more too attraction than mere looks, however to get to want to know those other things, usually there has to be a kind of attraction that exists before they even speak.

    Also, when i spoke sight and smell, I was speaking in the context symmetry and testosterone. I'm not speaking of the conscious reasons women reject men on an individual basis, rather the unconscious biological reasons that in general women find men attractive or not.

    So, as far as your question about men being more visual, I would say that we are just more conscious about being visual.
     
  17. turk Registered Member

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    Stop being so scared guys, and just put yourself out there. It's not that big of deal if things don't work out, it just wasn't meant to be. You got to love yourself enough that if the person you love don't love you back, you know its their loss. I you have loved and lossed, well, you have practiced love, so maybe next time you'll get it right. Relationships aren't easy, they are hard work. I'm not saying I have found my one and only. You know the perfect girl in which we are compatible in every way. If you are looking for that good luck! My girl and I aren't perfect for each other, but we make it work. Understanding women won't help you as much as learning when to just keep your mouth shut will. Especially with respect to criticism.
     
  18. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    But your contributions may be fruitful to someone else.

    Some days you give, some days you receive. Both are good.
     
  19. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    It doesn't matter. People who are not looking for love find it every day. Sometimes is just drops out of the sky and falls in your lap.
     
  20. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Indeed, that is the time you are most likely to find it.
     
  21. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Women judge men simply based on how good their genetic stock is: will said man provide beautiful, intelligent, successful children? Men though also select women on these things but to a lesser extend because men usually need to place less effort into making babies. This though is rather up to the society, in some societies men must be picky less they get stuck with alimony, this means that ugly, unsuccessful and/or stupid women have little to no chance of laying a handsome, successful, smart husband, unless the man feels so successful that he can fuck around with impunity (and has not standards other then "does she have a vagina") there are such men, but I think they are rare, most that would **** any women are just too stupid and thus lack one of the three indicators of good genetic stock. Anyways people are thus divided into "leagues" with the lowest league women unlike to score a highest league man no matter how brazen her sexual advances, and a lower league man unlikely to score with a women just a league above.

    Often a women will marry and produce a child or two with one man because he is successful and/or smart, but still screw the handsome "milk man" on the side to perhaps get a child with handsome genes as well. Sometime the women thinks about this consciously, often it rather impulsive or a combination of the two. Evolution made it so because women that did not optimize their genetic stock of their children, either consciously, impulsively or both, eventually fell out of the gene pool. Again for men the imperative was not so much quality then quantity, unless social standards made that hard then a man with at least some control over his impulses will choose wisely because the consequences are too drastic. Evolution of course is not a perfect process hence a percentage of men and women that have no standards for what ever reasons, but they are in the minority.

    With modern entertainment, porn, videogames, movies, TV shows, romance novels, etc, etc, more and more people are finding sexual outlets other then reproductive sex (add the cost of children as deterrent). The results is less selection of a mates or actually increased standards on the part of women (an increasing percentage of man I suspect are choosing not to "play the game" at all and jacking it instead) really it comes down to how desperately you need intercourse with another person and/or want to reproduce.
     
  22. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    You seem to always know what to say.

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    Thanks!

    All I see is bla bla bla
    I'm kidding
    You make valid points.

    I need to stop sitting then.

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    I hope no one casts a spell on those of us jaded ones here

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    I kid I kid

    From a female perspective, I don't disagree.
    I can only speak for myself. And if course there are exceptions to every rule.
     
  23. Layman Totally Internally Reflected Valued Senior Member

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    I think you are on the right track here. But, I don't think it is unconsciously, I have actually had the conscious thoughts of not wanting to be with those kinds of women. I have even consciously created firewalls to prevent myself from pursuing those types of relationships, by telling them something that I would think that they wouldn't like about me that I would find superficial, like for instance that I smoke. I think the problem is that it acts like a firewall to protect the Pentagon's launch codes and not a firewall that would protect your home personal computer. I think the problem is that I don't think my heart should be protected as much as our nuclear arsenal, but then it has become socially acceptable to reject men because they lack in some confidence. This strategy would show a lack of confidence that is not really there if you made a conscious decision to take these actions based on some type of goal. In other words women can get away with playing these types of games while men cannot. There will be only one result our outcome from taking these types of actions.

    I think the reason why I wouldn't want to be with them is the same reason why they don't want to be with men, and it is something that I have just stumbled upon by not ever being satisfied with the level of attention that I get with women. I ask myself, "what are these reasons?" Then I think that I do not like these reasons or that they are not truly justified. To me it is more like asking the proverbial question, "what came first the chicken or the egg?". It just so happens that the reason I had become disgruntled with them as a whole in the first place was due to being rejected by them in only a matter of a couple of minutes or a few sentences. Then based on what was said I can deduce that it was because I implied something that was not true. I think the number one factor I look for in a mate would be if they are not quick to judge.

    I use to think intelligence was important, but honestly I do not put as much care in intelligence anymore. From being rejected by intelligent women and then having to be in relationships with other kind of women I have found that just being able to have a good time with them is enough. I don't have to have a deep conversation in or do have a good time and be happy with my current situation. And then from experience I have realized that women are reluctant to get involved in deep conversations with men, they don't want us to understand them and they wouldn't really trust us with a lot of things that they are thinking in their most inner thoughts. Plus intelligence could just make matter more complicated, I think I would rather a women just be right about me rather than being a super genius that is wrong about me.

    That is a very good question and it has crossed my mind, the only answer I have to that is that you don't get a choice in what kind of women you end up with you just have to accept which one comes your way. Then you have to deal with the consequences if that person just doesn't happen to be your one true love. I don't believe there is any way to seek out and enforce these types of standards and then remain with the possibility that the women would still want to be with you. Any attempt at trying to set a standard will shed you in a bad light to a women that can be a deal breaker and there isn't any means to set these standards that does not show a lack of confidence or a high morality in yourself if you try to lie to find out a response. The lie itself will be seen as you having a low morality even if it is assumed that it is true. This seems a bit far fetched, but you should try to figure different ways that you can try to get the dirt out of somebody. It is not an easy task, and I don't think it could be done leaving the impression that you have kept your hands clean from such things. If this is truly the case, then men finding a women could remain being more like an arranged marriage. This is a thing that if women find that they also hate and discontinue a relationship, but in some ways I find it unavoidable. You really just have to get lucky in finding the right partner.

    At a time I thought I could actually be with anyone and be happy, that I could work out any problem me and my partner could have being that I was such a nice guy. I actually use to have the reputation of being a nice guy. They would say that, "nice guys finish last", but then I tend to wonder if they even finish at all. I have also have suffered from certain idealism's that I should be less superficial and then be with someone that a superficial person would never be with and I liked them from their personality. But then I was also rejected by those women too...

    But then being alone can feel like being put into solitary confinement in a high security prison. People that have grown up in isolation have a number of psychological disorders and tend to act more like animals. I for one would go insane if I didn't have any kind of mental stimulation.

    Right, she would most likely just cheat on me or dump me anyways. Then rub it in my face because she felt guilty about it and so that was the right thing to do. Then wonder why the man she left me for hide cheating from her for a long time.
     

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