What are the dimentions exactly?

Discussion in 'Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology' started by Shadow1, Jun 25, 2010.

  1. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    What?
    Justify this comment.

    Incoherent drivel.

    If we are aware of it then it must be something.

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  3. John99 Banned Banned

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    Which is impossible.


    we are only aware of the way we desire to express it. if you put a label on a piece of cheese and i remove the label and put another label on it did the object behind the label change? No.
     
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  5. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    So you made a claim that you can't even justify?
    How stupid is that?
    Do you state things randomly just for the sake of increasing your post count?

    What arrant (and again, incoherent) nonsense.
    Time is the "cheese" not the label in your example.

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  7. John99 Banned Banned

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    I already did.


    WHERE DID i say time does NOT exist in nature?
     
  8. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Did what?
    Justify your idiotic statement?
    Hardly.
    What evidence (or even suspicion of evidence) do you have to support the contention that "There are no dimensions"?

    Here:
    To claim that time is simply a product of our awareness is a claim that it doesn't actually exist. If that's not what you meant you should have phrased it better.
    Next time you post try to make sure it's in comprehensible English.
     
  9. John99 Banned Banned

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    Ah....i use the term Axis. From what i read in a few posts.


    Awareness is not imagination. Could always be worded better.
     
  10. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    In other words you're spouting your usual nonsense.
    "Axis" is not synonymous with "dimension", nor can you back up your ridiculous statement.

    And now you're just rambling.
    What has time got to do with imagination?
     
  11. John99 Banned Banned

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    Read the posts closer. As far as the second line: I said according to some posts here.
     
  12. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    And you're still rambling.
    The word "axis" wasn't used 'til you brought it up.
    And it's still not synonymous with "dimension".
    One more time:
     
  13. John99 Banned Banned

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    And what are you doing? Where is your theory?

    You cant show evidence that somethng does not exist.

    Read the posts better, not only mine.
     
  14. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    19,252
    Well so far you've:
    made a claim that is nonsense and that you can't back up,
    then stated that it's impossible to back up
    then claimed that you already have
    then changed the subject
    and THEN tried to put the onus on me.

    From this I conclude one of several things:
    You're incapable of actually saying what you mean (in which case you should refrain from posting until you are capable), or
    you don't know what you mean (same solution), or
    you're just trolling inanely.


    I don't need a "theory". Since dimensions are in use every single day then your blatantly stupid contention is the one that requires support/ backing up.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2010
  15. AlphaNumeric Fully ionized Registered Senior Member

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    So you're saying we can choose to call the things which match the definition of 'dimension' a 'dimension' but it doesn't matter?

    If something exists which matches the definition of 'dimension' then it is tautologically a dimension. Space-time has at least 4 of them, since you require at least 4 quantities to uniquely specify a point in space-time. That's how it works, as was said earlier in the thread. Too many people who don't do physics or maths 'taint' the notion of dimension (no thanks to bloody sci-fi!!) with all sorts of irrelevant and often false information.

    Dimensions, in terms of the universe, exist. In other, more abstract, constructions other amounts of dimensions can exist. For instance, suppose there's 3 dimensions of space and one of time. If you have n particles in a box then you need a 6n dimensional space to describe them, each particle has 3 dimensions associated to its position and 3 dimensions associated to its momentum. This is the phase space of the system. To even consider the air particles in an average sized room you get into such staggeringly high dimensionality that the problem becomes almost intractable if you come at it from a phase space point of view.
     
  16. John99 Banned Banned

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    Not me.

    I just call it an Axis.
     
  17. John99 Banned Banned

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    I should say 'which is why i prefer the term Axis' because it alleviates the chances of miscommunication or any injections of fiction.
     
  18. John99 Banned Banned

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    Because you do not read clearly and slow enough to understand what the post actually states. Instead you prefer to get excited and pick out what you want to see. Cant teach an old dog though.
     
  19. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    You're an idiot.
    "Axis" does not mean "dimension" (in fact it introduces misunderstanding - one more time: the two words are NOT synonymous) and WTF has "fiction" got to do with it?
    Are you implying that dimensions are fictional?
     
  20. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Wrong.
    You clearly have problems saying what you mean, and even more clearly are clueless as to what you actually do mean, since you can't state it without hand-waving references to "other posts".
     
  21. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    19,252
    An axis requires that there be a dimension for that axis to exist in.
    For example:
    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/axis

    An axis is a particular line that is a reference to (or through) a given body (or series of bodies). You can't have an axis without first having dimensions but you can have dimensions without specifying (or defining) axes.
     
  22. AlphaNumeric Fully ionized Registered Senior Member

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    Except that an axis implies a straight line. Yes, in flat space you can use Cartesian coordinates which have x, y, z etc axes which are all at right angles to one another and valid everywhere but this is not true when you get into more complicated spaces.

    By definition a manifold is a space which looks like flat Euclidean space close up, so you can define a set of coordinate axes at each point but that doesn't mean each point will have the same set of axes. For non-trivial manifolds you find that as you move through the space your axes vary, they are only really valid in a small region about the point they are defined. Its practically a tautology to say that non-trivial manifolds can't have a globally defined set of coordinates. For instance, plenty of examples exist where you can define a set of unit coordinate axis vectors at a point in the space but then as you move around you find your axis vectors start varying in size and angle to one another, sometimes even becoming equal or becoming zero in size. Such regions are singularities in the space (mathematical singularities, not 'black hole') and can be extremely difficult to examine.

    As it happens the definition of the dimension of some space M is the number of vectors in the basis of a tangent fibre. In less technical terms, the dimension of a space is the number of linearly independent directions you can move in at a given point in the space, which amounts to asking how many coordinate axes you have at that point but this is not synonymous with saying you should think of dimensions as coordinate axes because the vectors which define the axes vary as you move through a space in all but the simplest kinds of spaces.
     
  23. John99 Banned Banned

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    For myself that is a point of contention. How did you come to this conclusion? Is it not a fact that X axis is usually right and left\positive or negative, Y is up and down..etc.? Why does the term 'dimension' even need to play a part? I think it is just force of habit, on your part.

    AlphaNumeric, i scanned your posts and taken as a whole i would most likely agree with you. I will read them through in awhile and if i can poke some holes in it i will comment. Though i acknowledge your proficiency on this subject.

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