What belief in God really means.

Discussion in 'Religion' started by JBrentonK, Feb 19, 2015.

  1. Daecon Kiwi fruit Valued Senior Member

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    Aren't you contradicting yourself with that statement?
     
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  3. Spellbound Banned Valued Senior Member

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    For those of you with a speck of curiosity about what God is really like as opposed to making false fillers see:

    Mind and reality - the abstract and the concrete, the subjective and the objective, the internal and the external - are linked together in a certain way, and this linkage is the real substance of "reality theory". Just as scientific observation determines theories, the logical requirements of theories to some extent determine scientific observation. Since reality always has the ability to surprise us, the task of scientific observation can never be completed with absolute certainty, and this means that a comprehensive theory of reality cannot be based on scientific observation alone. Instead, it must be based on the process of making scientific observations in general, and this process is based on the relationship of mind and reality. So the CTMU is essentially a theory of the relationship between mind and reality.

    In explaining this relationship, the CTMU shows that reality possesses a complex property akin to self-awareness. That is, just as the mind is real, reality is in some respects like a mind. But when we attempt to answer the obvious question "whose mind?", the answer turns out to be a mathematical and scientific definition of God. This implies that we all exist in what can be called "the Mind of God", and that our individual minds are parts of God's Mind. They are not as powerful as God's Mind, for they are only parts thereof; yet, they are directly connected to the greatest source of knowledge and power that exists. This connection of our minds to the Mind of God, which is like the connection of parts to a whole, is what we sometimes call the soul or spirit, and it is the most crucial and essential part of being human.

    http://www.megafoundation.org/CTMU/Q&A/Archive.html
     
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  5. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    Spellbound possesses the divine secrets? (I thought that Jan Ardena was the annoited one.)
     
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  7. Spellbound Banned Valued Senior Member

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    Don't forget Langan.

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    I'm merely the middle man of the divine secrets.
     
  8. brokenbutnotbeat Registered Member

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    you could say I take whatever i want out of different religions and leave out the questionable parts about violence since it doesn't make sense to me, to me god is very important, and I believe in the christian god, i may question things he does, but don't really question his existence,
     
  9. brokenbutnotbeat Registered Member

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    I can't blindly worship anything all the time, so some of the things that are happening don't make sense to me, but I do worship god. i can't tell you that god is perfect or that he doesn't mistakes, because I'm not sure.
     
  10. Hapsburg Hellenistic polytheist Valued Senior Member

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    Imperfection doesn't invalidate a deity as being worthy of worship. I mean, it might if you think a god has to be perfect. But that's an unreasonable expectation, to me.

    Mind, religion is more than just venerating a thing (whether it's abstract or concrete). Religion contains a social element, and most importantly it prescribes a set of practices. Rituals, behaviours, and actions to go along with a suggested set of beliefs. What he's doing is pretty generic modern western spirituality; rejection of a specific set of religious practices, and in its place an eclectic and personalized belief system--generally influenced by Christian monotheism, even if it tries not to be.
     
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  11. brokenbutnotbeat Registered Member

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    Yes, I agree with this.
     
  12. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    Spellbound, your preaching is getting beyond a joke. And yes, it is preaching that you are doing. You are a one-trick pony, and have offered nothing to support any of your claims. You say you are a middle-man, but if you want to make such claims to knowledge as you continue to do then you have to support it - and support it with more than just "Langan says..." (i.e. more quotes from Langan).
     
  13. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    You won't let me.

    I have no interest in Langan and his ideas. In fact I don't even find 'CTMU' rhetoric comprehensible. It seems to me to be little more than pseudo-technical gibberish that constantly hints at interesting ideas, but never delivers.

    There are lots of people with ideas out there, I'm not sure why I should pay any special attention to Langan, even if he somehow found a way to make sense.

    You're a preacher, that's for sure.

    But not a very effective one. You don't seem to me to understand Langan's theories yourself (who could?) and seem totally incapable of explaining them so that they start to seem plausible. (Probably too much to ask of anyone.)

    Instead, it's all about faith. Langan is your inspired prophet and 'CTMU' is your Quran.

    I'm not interested in converting. I'm no more interested in 'finding Langan' than I am in 'finding Jesus'.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2015
  14. brokenbutnotbeat Registered Member

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    I believe in god, even if he is imperfect, because it could be that he created us, yet lost control of us because he gave us freewill, and freewill is what makes us do things we want. At times, i wonder if god is to blame, and other times I wonder if we will understand his ways and motives.
     
  15. brokenbutnotbeat Registered Member

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    all I would say is that belief in god may help someone else like it helps me, like I would recommend medicine or treatment to someone because it helped me. may not work for others but still saying.
     
  16. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    All you are describing is a placebo effect, or a different mindset that might aid someone's path. But that speaks nothing to the veracity of what it is that is believed in.
    If belief in God is merely a mindset with no claim to the veracity of God's actual existence then that is one thing, but belief in God is generally accompanied by, if not logically necessitated by, belief in God's actual existence.
     
  17. brokenbutnotbeat Registered Member

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    as for evidence of god, i think god will find you, rather than you finding god.

    not saying those who don't believe in god can't be good people or have a reason to live, but it's very hard for me to understand that mindset. God found me, and belief in god is something i can't live without, but what about you? what is it that keeps you going? just asking.
     
  18. Hapsburg Hellenistic polytheist Valued Senior Member

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    It varies. It's pretty apparent that most people believe in deity because they were taught to. But there are some, like me, who are theistic because of subjective experiences. I think that most of those in the latter category know that their experiences and personal evidence are subjective, unverifiable things. I believe that the gods are real, sure, but I explicitly do not claim that my beliefs are objectively true. What I personally believe and what I claim to others are different things.
     
  19. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    Forgive me if I struggle with the notion that you can believe something such as the existence of gods as true but not also claim those things as true, unless of course you are not certain that the gods are real? And that your "belief" is merely a matter of possibility, but one on which you side with "more likely than not"?
    But to most theists, you ask if they are certain that God exists, and they are.
    To me this is a claim that what they believe is objectively true. And such certainty of belief equates to a claim of truth.

    So, are you certain that "the gods are real"?
     
  20. brokenbutnotbeat Registered Member

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    I think what hapsburg means is that even though gods are real and he knows it, he won't claim that his beliefs are objectively true, but I don't know.

    as for me, I think what i believe is real, unquestionably, i also think that everyone would greatly benefit from my beliefs, because with freewill you get to choose, I hope everyone sees my way, but i can't force anyone.
     
  21. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    In my opinion, if you believe something is real, and you claim to know it is real, then you are claiming it to be true, even if your justification is wholly subjective.
    Why do you say "unquestionably"? Many would see "unquestionably" as a potential source of irrationality. Maybe it is because you don't question it that you do believe.
    What does freewill have to do with it?
    Does one have any more or less freewill if one believes in God or not?
    You previously said mentioned that belief in God gave you something to fear so as not to to "evil", but where is the freewill if you are threatened to behave in a certain way?
    And whether or not I believe in God won't change the objective truth of his existence of non-existence... I will continue to operate in exactly the same way.
    If God does exist then we operate as we do. If God does not exist then we also operate exactly as we do.
    So I find your statement regarding freewill rather peculiar.

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  22. brokenbutnotbeat Registered Member

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    I think that god gave us free will, but we shouldn't stray too far. but there is nothing stopping me or anyone from not believing in him.

    believing in god may tell you if god exists or not.
     
  23. Hapsburg Hellenistic polytheist Valued Senior Member

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    I'm saying that "objectivity" and "truth", as traditionally understood, does not exist. Thus, belief is just a matter of opinion. Merely holding an opinion does not mean that I am telling other people that they should hold the same opinion.
     

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