What changes should Democrats make?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Seattle, Feb 9, 2017.

  1. Seattle Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,856
    Democrats clearly need to make some changes given the imbalance for them in local, state, and national offices.

    It's easy to say that they should just forget what they stand for and pay dirty politics to win elections at any cost. That is too cynical IMO however. They need to stand for something other than just winning elections against the Republicans.

    On the other hand they can't continue on along the current path that they are on. What changes should they make in your opinion?
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,910
    Democrats are winning the majority of votes cast in elections, but they aren't winning elections. They need to address the structural issues the face. They need to address the non democratic aspects of our government. I think Obama gets it, and I think that's what he will be working toward that end. Democrats win the population centers. They win the economic centers. They lose the rural areas and states. That's their problem.

    Democrats have a very good message. But that message is lost on Bubba and his buddies in the rural areas. Bubba and his buddies aren't into all that thinking stuff. Jobs are hard to find in rural areas, and that's not going to change no matter what Trump says. It's just not economical for companies to build manufacturing facilities in Podunk, Ia. or any rural area. There are infrastructure issues, roads, airports, and insufficient labor to support industrialization in remote areas of America. Companies aren't going to reinvent the wheel just so they can do business in Pudunk America. Most laborers don't want to live on in a remote city. The jobs will never go to the small rural communities. It's just a fact of life, and Bubba and his buddies are going to have to learn that hard and difficult fact. The jobs aren't coming to them. They need to go to the jobs.

    Democrats need to continue to do what they have been doing. I think it's a matter of years before big states like Texas will turn blue. It's just a matter of time and demographics. Democrats have a growing demographic. Republicans have a shrinking demographic. So if Democrats do nothing they will eventually begin winning. It's just a matter of time.

    Democrats need to spend time and money on smaller rural states building their party infrastructure and brand. The need to recruit local talent to place on the ballot and they need to adequately fund the races. They need to make sure they aren't on the wrong end of gerrymandering as they were in 2010. Another census and congressional district realignment will occur in 2020. Democrats need to be ready for it. They need to avoid a repeat of 2010 at all costs.

    Democrats, to their peril, haven't paid much attention to state and local races in rural states. That needs to stop.
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    30,994
    They should change the Republican's predominance in the media framing, and their ability to rig the voting mechanics in their favor. They should return to their former principles of governance, and make no more compromises with the current Republican circus, and clearly label all Republican initiatives as Republican, without support or compromise from any Dems. When the latest Republican horror once again blows up in everybody's faces, they should point fingers and cast blame and call the police whenever indicated (throwing somebody off the voting rolls by knowingly misidentifying them is a felony).

    They can start by labeling Trump and every one of his policies etc "Republican" at all times. Routinely. Repeatedly. Drive it home.

    Make Bubba come to them - it's the only way, they can't be reached. Most won't - the Bubbas are irredeemable, like the lady said, because they would have to admit how wrong they've been and how right the people they despise have been, and that's not going to happen - but some will, and after all they're a minority anyway.
    http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/rural-america-understanding-isnt-problem

    Fight, in other words. Don't stand around hoping that freakshow is going to come to its senses. It hasn't got any.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2017
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Seattle Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,856
    I agree with much of what has been said but as long as people are thought of as "Bubba" and you expect "Bubba" to be a Democrat there's going to have to be a change.
     
  8. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,910
    I think the Democratic Party should have a Bubba outreach, but it's going to be difficult. One party, the Republican Party, has a very loose relationship with truth and honesty. I don't think Democrats should lower their standards, and that might be necessary to get to the Bubba vote.

    The Republican Party has a huge disinformation machine e.g. Fox News and Republican radio which promulgates and leverages fear and misinformation to advantage Republicans 24/7. It appeals to the Bubba vote. I don't know how Democrats counter that. But it must be done. Democrats must become media savvy.

    For decades now Republicans have been using Saul Alinsky's, "Rules For Radicals" as their playbook. Democrats need to read it too.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2017
  9. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    30,994
    No such change is indicated, or even possible. I don't think in Bubba terms anyway: Bubba's southern - around me, different reference terms, same basic situation.

    Quit expecting Bubba to be a Democrat, if you have to, but don't try to pretend the situation isn't what it is. It won't help. Because it doesn't matter one whit how you think of Bubba - Bubba isn't paying any attention to other people's thinking anyway. (He thinks he is, but he's getting all his info about it from Fox, Limbaugh, or his preacher).

    And it isn't a matter of respect - these people are, if treated right (and treated carefully) a real strength, partly because they are ornery as hell - an American character trait I like a lot. But they've been had - hornswoggled, co-opted, whatever - completely corrupted, politically, by thirty five years of sensory deprivation and force-fed garbage - and now they have to be simply beaten, politically. Or the country's going down. They're on the wrong side, ok? They're the men who signed on with the orcs, in Lord of the Rings.

    Did you read the link? Reality check: http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/rural-america-understanding-isnt-problem
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2017
  10. Seattle Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,856
    I agree that they shouldn't lower their standards. I think they need to treat Bubba with respect and not arrogance and condescension and that's going to be hard as it's easy to slip into that mindset. I do it myself.

    Everyone in that demographic isn't as you have described however. There are some educated people with good jobs who still have that conservative gene and I'm including that paranoid, fear of change part of conservatism (not that it needs to be a part of conservatism but frequently is).

    I think the Democrats just need to address it and realize that it does exist. Think of the Bushes. They are well to do, educated and yet are functional Bubbas as are many others it pains me to say.

    Most of "flyover" country is like that and that includes many educated people. Most should actually be Democrats and probably would be if the communications coming out of Democratic quarters wasn't all "urban elite" and dismissive of "Bubbas".

    It's a hard nut to crack however. I was born in that kind of environment (eastern N.C.). It was a bit more liberal at the time all the while Jessie Helms coexisted in the same environment. I'm educated and left but many people stayed and many are liberal and some aren't.

    Just from my anecdotal experiences much of the middle of the country is even more adverse to the changing times than the middle Atlantic South. I think "Obamacare" is a good thing but it was more or less forced on the public. Were this handled differently I do think it wouldn't have been as divisive as it turned out to be.

    The conversation should be improving it over time rather than repeal. Trump used to be a moderate Democrat and even liberal in some ways. Candidate Trump seems to just have decided to become what he thought would work to get him elected and it did in fact work.

    I think the only thing you can observe about Trump (other than the obvious mental issues) is that he is driven to be liked and is narcissistic. If circumstances were different he could have run as a NE liberal if the times were such that he would have been elected like that.

    Now he has turned himself into some racist from Alabama, with Sessions as AG, a home schooler as Sec. of Education and a right wing nut in Bannon as chief adviser and a conservative appointee to the Supreme Court.

    That wasn't the Trump of even a few years ago except for the narciscism.
     
  11. Seattle Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,856
    Only part of that link is generally true. I grew up in similar circumstances. Not in rural Alabama but in smaller town eastern N.C.

    Most people did continue on to college. Most have decent jobs but still vote for Trump in many cases. It's too easy to dismiss them as in that article but there is some truth in there as with most things.
     
  12. Seattle Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,856
    One thing that's overlooked to a degree is that where you live has a lot of do with your perceptions as to how the government is doing. I know this is addressed by the phrase "flyover country" but it really is important to realize how difference ones impression of "America" is depending on where you live.

    When you live in some of the worse places no amount of "good government" is going to help all that much and when you live in a good place government is sort of irrelevant.

    Just to give some examples. I grew up in N.C. It's not a bad place to live and many people from the North move there. Still, you can drive just outside of the towns and still see dilapidated old houses without paint that are 100 years old with people still living in them.

    I remember the first time I flew into Laguardia Airport in NYC. As the plane was about to land I could look out and see areas that looked like Europe right after WWII (bombed out looking in other words).

    Much of the deep South has even more disparities than I experienced in N.C. I went to grad school in Phoenix. Employment is an issue in Arizona, weather is similar to the inside of your oven and you can buy a condo for $50k in many places.

    Drugs, and crime are issues in New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona and much of the deep South.

    However, there are many places in the U.S. where you can live and you won't experience any of this comparatively speaking.

    Everyone expects the same things from government but no government can deal with many of those issues (to a degree large enough to be significant anyway). Yet all of those people vote. I think we need to consider where some voters are coming from.

    It's easy to just say "move" but not everyone is built that way apparently. It's not really a solution anyway as it just makes makes the areas left even poorer.
     
  13. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    30,994
    The question is how to do that - because a reality of respect is not going to matter.
    They would have to be seen by Bubba as treating them with respect and not arrogance or condescension - which can only happen if they manage to get some handle on the media Bubba attends to. Reality is not involved, unless they can get leverage on that media - including the pulpits.
    That explains nothing. The communications coming out of their Democratic quarters are nothing of the kind, if they were Democrats they would be issuing the "communications" anyway, and the Republican Party is actually screwing them over. So why aren't they responding to reality?
    "Most" people who grew up in eastern NC do not have college degrees. Most Trump voters have decent jobs everywhere, other than being screwed over by the Republican Crash (reality is not involved, as always).
    It's not at all easy. The Dems have been wrecking their Party and gutting everything they used to stand for, by failing to dismiss them as in that article, and instead trying to change to draw their vote.

    Which loses their respect.
    Which is what counts, imho - not granting them respect, but earning theirs.

    Which brings us back to the media that elected Trump.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2017
  14. Seattle Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,856
    Yes, most people who went to my high school went on to college. Most people who went to most high schools went on to college. Some didn't graduate for high school (a few) and those wouldn't have gone on to college.

    I know someone with a Phd in neuroscience (female) from my high school who is a Trump supporter. No, I don't get it but I know several Trump supporters. Most just didn't like Clinton and most were upset with ACA and somehow feel that Obama didn't listen to people like them at all.

    Much of the Trump vote, among the somewhat educated, seems to be a vote for any kind of change or shake-up in spite of what he does or says.

    Really, at a minimum the Democrats need to get some new players at the national level as continuing to run Hillary is just suicide.

    I thought the Republicans (at the Presidential level anyway) were going to be the ones to self-destruct first and they did in a way but they are in power now sort of.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    I'd like to see Warren run but I don't think there are the votes to elect her and Trump would just win again or someone even crazier.
     
  15. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    30,994
    Not bubbas, then - but similarly insular, similarly afflicted: politics as something somebody else does, government as imposed from the outside, and no self-awareness whatsoever. No idea at all where the ACA came from, or why, for example. Not the remotest conception of the Congress Obama has been dealing with for eight years.

    Nothing about Obama, nothing about Clinton (sane, anyway), nothing about the ACA, explains a vote for Trump. And his supporters still like him - he's doing fine, from his base's pov.

    The Dems cannot change so as to appeal to those people, and remain ok, remain a sane and functioning political Party capable of adult governance of the country.

    As the guy put it:
     
  16. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,077
    Shave their heads and do penance in the Naughty Corner for 10 years
     
  17. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,938
    The problem is, our government isn't about what is best for the Nation anymore... it's about "what makes my party stronger", be it politically, monetarily (often), or personally (again, often).

    Case in point - Republicans are set to gut the EPA and almost every single environmental protection, Trump has been professing "clean beautiful coal"...

    Clean coal? I'll show you the effects of "clean coal"...

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    Coal Miners wind up filling their lungs with soot and debris... and it isn't exactly good for them. Best of all, it has become increasingly difficult for them to get any kind of assistance once the black lung sets in.

    Not to mention that burning coal puts more radioactive material into the atmosphere than a nuclear power plant...

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/coal-ash-is-more-radioactive-than-nuclear-waste/
     
    joepistole likes this.
  18. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,523
    1. Tell the regressives to fuck off, move their issues to the back of the platform because they don't bring in votes and voters but rather scare people away.
    2. No more corporate donars, remove the corporatist neo-liberal clintonites. Ending corruption is an issue we can get alot of independents and moderates on board about.
    3. After corruption, focus on economic reform, single payer healthcare, tax the rich, increase minimum wage, etc

    Justice democrats seem to have the right idea.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2017
  19. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,479
    so you want us to tell you to fuck off? cause i'll gladly do that.
     
  20. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,523
    Go ahead, watch the republicans win more seats in 2018 and Trump again in 2020.
     
  21. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,938
    It is sadly bemusing to me how people that agree that things like corruption and the economy need work will fight one another in opposition of the same end goal...
     
  22. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,523
    Yes it is strange is it not, would like for pjdude to explain what in detail he disagrees with me and my kind over.
     
  23. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    54,036
    The Democratic Party needs to go hard after governorships and state politics. They need to end the largely Republican practice of gerrymandering. But to win the presidency, all they really need is a good candidate. It's a no-brainer that there will be a huge backlash against Trump's over-reach, corruption, theft of the Supreme Court pick, and anti-facts attitude. We can't and shouldn't compromise on LGBT and civil rights.
     

Share This Page