Yeah, he was very popular with the young; but again, we have the failure of the establishment Democrats to recognizing it or even give his popularity an equal footing. The Democratic Party is corrupt. The young see that and they are pissed. They are now watching the party make the same mistakes while also doubling down on its ideology that only divides them from most lower-middle class voters. They are screwing themselves in preparation for 2020. Bernie could have been president right now. Why isn't he? What's on the rise now is Generation Z. Their world is quite different from what we have seen in recent years. Their access to information is much more diverse and, let's be honest, television is a dying media. It is truly unique to be conservative these days. As it stands now, conservatism seems to represent independent thought more than does liberalism, if we are to take the Berkeley riot as an example. Anyway, there is no crystal ball for the future; however, I see the liberal cause becoming more like a religious cult that feeds on itself, further isolating people and pushing them away.
The Democrats got more votes in this Presidential election than did Trump (popular vote) so I wouldn't say the Republican's have got the young vote. I think they have the ignorant and disenfranchised vote but that's hardly "the future". As much as I can see where the Democrats need to improve their message I don't see the Republicans with a better message. Do you?
The "liberal cause"? What is that? Do people have to pay attention to it, or can the liberal majority of the American public just go on about its political business without bothering with the "cause"? Conservative thought of any kind has almost vanished - there is no body of thought or theory behind the modern Republican Party, for example: its intellectual wing is devoted to reactionary propaganda and media operations. There's more independent thought in rap music than in "conservatism" these days, unless the conservative faction of the Democratic Party is included.
That popular vote didn't do them much good where it counted. Trump appealed to those people whose vote won the election. Jobs, immigration, security...that's what mattered in the end. And let's be honest, Hillary was the worst possible pick when you stand her up to Sanders. Again, you would have a Democrat president right now had the party not isolated its own constituency. People are watching right now, how the left is dealing with its loss. It doesn't look very pretty, and people are falling away from its clutches. When conservatives start preaching the value of Free Speech, Freedom of Religion and Individual Rights, they are taking the high road. When they tell us that we live in the greatest country, that we should be proud, that everyone is equal under the law, they are taking the high road. And that is the message that's taking hold. In contrast, the Left seems determined to divide us by race, gender and economic status. The Left has become sanctimonious puritans who piss and moan when they don't get their way. Or so it appears that way since they lost the election. The Democratic Party is becoming the party of ideologues.
The Republicans seem to be the party of fear. Fear of immigrants, terrorists, the media, Islam, facts as in "alternative facts". The party of sticking your head in the sand doesn't have legs in my opinion. One on in the Republican Party would want their kids to grow up to be like Donald Trump I'm pretty sure.
And his Party rigged the voting machines and registration rolls in the swing States. The Left lost in the Democratic primary. When Republicans talk like that, on the other hand, they are taking the low road of cynical deception and disregard of personal integrity - same as they have been since 1980, when they found out what works. That's Republican code for trying to restore the income and capital gains taxes to their pre-Reagan middle class prosperity levels.
Okay...that sounds like a conspiracy theory. As for the remainder of your post, it's late. I will leave with a video that shows what we can all see quite readily--the children of the Left...
I can't speak for Republicans, but I believe I might be able to share some thoughts regarding conservatives (and I'm using the term in the broadest sense). I think it's more about law and order. They don't mind legal immigration, yet they don't believe someone should enter the country by breaking the law. Protecting our country should be, by any rational mind, prime importance; so yeah, shutting down travel from trouble countries until the vetting process can be examined really doesn't sound unreasonable to most people. The media has considerable power over popular perception. It should be scrutinized and questioned...always. I would hope you agree. I don't think we want to clone Trump, but we would like to leave something behind for our children. I don't know that Trump can make that happen, but he was the only one making promises.
I don't think most of these things actually are problems to the extent that most conservatives seem to think that they are. A lot of these issues are just racism or extreme nationalism at play. At lot of the issues with the media is in not liking to be questioned. That's the nature of good journalism. The press should be there to question the government. The purpose of the press isn't to be the PR department of the government. What exactly is illegal immigration. I understand that some people "sneak" over the borders but really what is the main concern? Too many Mexicans cutting lawns and picking apples for low pay? I'm not aware of Mexican terrorism. The other borders (airports) require passports and custom checks and there is vetting already. The countries on the current 7 country list haven't been the source of terrorism here in the past and the sources of our past terrorism aren't on the ban list. Nothing happened last week to justify this drastic measure. If you (generic you) are worried about terrorism it would make more sense to support less intervention by our military into the affairs in other parts of the world. We have caused, in large part, much of the terrorism that has been directed our way. Look at all of the civilians that have been killed (accidentally) in all of the countries that we go into. What do you think all of those children whose parents we killed by us are going to think about the U.S.? They aren't going to have the same love for the U.S. that we have. Most of these people we are banning from coming here aren't terrorists. You'll say that if we catch even one it was worth it but we aren't catching anyone. There wasn't a sudden problem that resulted in this ban. This is just Trump acting like a narrow-minded despot. This isn't even a deeply felt position for Trump as far as I can tell. He is just playing to his audience. A few years ago he was a typical NY Democrat for gun control, for choice on the abortion issue and now he is to the left of George Wallace. He is appointing a racist Southern Senator to be the Attorney General, the Department of Education is filled by a no nothing home schooler, the Supreme Court appointee is very conservative. This isn't the real Donald Trump (if there is a real Donald Trump). This is just a narcissist rule by executive order at this point. He doesn't like the press, Congress, or anyone who is critical of him in any way. He has a problem with the President of Mexico, the Prime Minister of Australia, how long before we are invading Iran and North Korea?
Sheesh, it's really late, but since you are hanging with the conversation, I'll try to hang with you on this one. Trump has been president for what, two weeks? I think the dogs have been biting pretty hard. I think it would be honest to suggest that the mainstream media is very bias. If I were Trump, I would also hold a grudge. Do you believe the majority of press is liberal or conservative in its coverage? Honest question. Silly question. We both know the difference between entering a country legally and illegally. I'm assuming you have a passport, too. I'm assuming that you wouldn't expect the right to stay indefinitely in any country of your choice without proper vetting. Also, I'm assuming you live in the Northwest as do I, where the impact of illegal immigration might not be a large issue as it might be in other states. I don't want to look up the statistics, but it seems the last time I checked, we had over 12 million illegal immigrants in our country. Might that put a strain on the system overall? I think your point regarding the disadvantages for immigrants also important. Yes, I can drive to the city and hire an illegal for five dollars an hour, work him like a dog, and drop him off on the corner when done. Are you advocating slave labor? Possibly you are aware of Mexican criminals entering the southern border, the drug trade, people with very little skills who use our services. Since it hasn't happened yet, there no point in using caution? We're talking about a 90 day travel ban, until we can verify that our methods of vetting are secure. Again, why argue against security. I'm having trouble understanding the logic. It wasn't a problem when Obama did the same. Why is it an issue now? What needs happen before it is justified? That's a whole debate in itself. I think we can agree that some people really dislike us, and for that reason we should use caution. All the more reason to be reckless? Look, if you're feeling guilt over past national sins, that's fine. Many still feel a need to protect our own. I apologize because I can't quote the source, but it's my understanding that over 500 planned terrorist attacks have been thwarted since 9/11. I do apologize for not being able to offer a link. It's late and I just don't have the energy to source the info. He's trying to do exactly what he promised to do, protect the American people. I would be disappointed had he not acted. It's early in the presidency. I'm still watching as are many. He appears to be doing what his supporters want him to do. It's still early, Seattle. There are four more years ahead of us. We will see. Well, when people are constantly comparing you to Hitler, you're going to have an attitude.
Enough about Trump and the Republicans, let's get back on topic. What can the Democrats do to change their misfortune?
Focus on actual populist policy like free healthcare, free education, taxing the rich, ending political corruption and corporate donations. The Right went extremely far to the right, now the left needs to do the same because the neo-liberals, moderate left and corporatist democrats have got us nothing but failure, and yet at the same time the left has to drop the social justice and cultural marxist types quietly as the distraction and poison that they are that gets nothing done for the mass of middle class voters. Alot more can be done for the oppressed minorities of the world by achieving free healthcare and free education and a strong social safety net then by getting the gays marriage (done deal already!) and transexuals the bathrooms of their choice. Video for you with my favorite living economist being interviewed by a spitting lizard.
Three weeks, but who is counting? Trump has been POTUS for 3 weeks. It's not the job of the press to make sure Trump only receives good press. It's not the job of the press to ignore all of Trump's many screw-ups. Reporting the facts doesn't make the mainstream media biased. It must means they are doing their jobs. The personal political beliefs of main stream journalists aren't the issue here. The issue here is have they and are they doing their jobs as journalists? Mainstream journalists provide both sides of the story to the extent possible. You can't get more honest than that. They don't do the scripted news you find on Republican talk radio or Fox News. Now if you have evidence to support your assertion that mainstream media is biased, now is the time to prove it. So let's see it. What is the impact of illegal impact of immigration on the United States? Please do be specific. I live in the Midwest. I'm closer to the southern border, and I'm seeing no ill effects. And number of illegal residents is estimated to be 11 million, not 12 million. Why do you think 11 million illegal aliens who contribute to our economy, who daily work and participate in our economy, are a burden? The studies which I have seen show the US gains more than it loses from these illegal residents. In addition, number of illegal alien workers has stabilized. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! What would be a burden is to take millions of workers out of our economy. That would be a burden to the employers they work for and the customers those employers serve. It would be a burden to the land owners who rent property to these 11 million people. It would be a burden to the stores these 11 million people patronize. That's a silly argument. Paying a low wage isn't slave labor. You have made a reductio a absurdum argument. Ironically, slave labor is basically what folks like you are advocating. Without the protection of law illegal residents can be abused by unscrupulous folks. That's not what Democrats have or are now advocating. That's a straw man. I think most Americans are aware of the the border drug problem. Illegal drugs come in, money and weapons go out. But that's not what we are talking about. Neither Democrats or Republicans are supportive of the Mexican criminals or the cross border drug and weapons trade. Since it hasn't happened yet, why is it urgent enough to instigate a travel ban and disrupt the lives of thousands if not millions and in the process drag the reputation of the US under the bus? The problem Trump has is he has no good reason. There is no indication of the threat he has stated. If there is a threat, you should be able to prove that threat. The truth is, Trump is fear mongering because it works for him politically with his base Obama didn't do the same thing. That's an outright lie. Obama discovered some holes in the vetting process and implemented those changes. The Obama administration never banned immigration as Trump has done. You need to prove a) there is a problem and b) your solution will fix the problem. Trump has done neither. Everyday for years, thousands of people have migrated under the current rules and no one from the banned countries has done what Trump thinks they might do. And you think religious bans aren't reckless? And you think signing executive orders without understanding them and the repercussions of them isn't reckless? Ironically, Trump's actions make us less safe. What he is doing is being a demagogue and playing to his base. If people are comparing you to Hitler, maybe you should stop acting like Hitler.
I think it would be wise to understand this as a totally new era of politics, the era of politicians that watched every word they said, that tried no the step on toes, is over! Trump has proven that you can be a pig boar but as long as you say a few truths that other politicians even of his own party (or more accurately the party he took over) were not willing to say, like that Iraq war was wrong, military should be retracted, trade deals fucked the middle class, etc, even between mocking the hand-cape and garbing women by the pussy without consent. Likewise too win we need democrats willing to say the truth, willing to chastise everyone including their own party for failures, minus the pussy garbing. Samuel Ronan maybe a good example of what we need:
This is worth a little extra attention. Your rationalization here is just one of the many pieces of misinformation which has been created by the Trump administration and promulgated without vetting by right wing media sources. It's a lie. It's one of many. The Obama administration never issued a ban. They did nothing even remotely similar to what Trump has done. The Obama administration discovered their vetting process could be improved and they improved it. They didn't issue a ban as Trump has done. No one arguing against improving security; that's a straw man argument on your part. You don't need to issue a blanket ban on immigration to improve the vetting process. We already have a very extensive and prolonged vetting process. Immigrants from these lands are vetted for years. They didn't just show up yesterday and immigrated today. The US vetting process is already extensive and it takes years to complete. Trump has banned people without a plan. He doesn't know a problem exists. There is no evidence a problem exist, and he has no solution. This is all show for his base who aren't well educated or well informed, and it plays well with them. That's why Trump did it. But Trump's actions aren't without consequences. He is pissing off millions of people: people we need to effect stability in the Middle East. Ironically, Trump's actions make the US less safe, not more safe.
If Clinton was the worst possible pick, then why have Republicans favored Sanders? Trump's appeal was and is to lesser educated whites in rural areas. Trump did well with the Bubba vote. And because our constitution values geography more than people, Trump won. But it is a fiction to assert Trump is representative of the American people, because he isn't. The unfortunate fact for you and your conservative fellows is most Americans didn't vote for Trump. They voted for Hillary. So of Hillary was such a poor candidate as you have asserted, why did she get more votes than your man The Donald? What does that mean exactly? People are watching, and they aren't happy with what they are seeing. That's why, your man, The Donald, is the least popular president in modern history. Where do you get the notion people are falling away from the Democratic Party? I know, you get it from the right wing media sources you mimic. But where is your evidence? I don't see it. If you have been paying attention to the mainstream media you would have seen numerous protests around the country. They weren't protesting Democrats. FYI: In case you missed it: Republican Chafetz at his recent town hall Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! That doesn't sound like Democrats are falling away. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! When Republicans preach the value of "free speech" they take the high road? Lying isn't the high road. Dishonesty isn't the high road comrade. Where is your evidence the left is trying to divide us? Let's see it. The problem Republicans have is they have played identify politics for decades to their advantage. There is a reason why the KKK and other racist groups have endorsed Republicans and Trump specifically. There are reasons why these well known racists groups eschew the Democratic Party and embrace the Republican Party. Below is a reference to an article published in a right wing journal; the article speaks to the conservative, i.e. Republican reliance on identity politics and urges the party to move away from it. It's an admission the American right wing has used identity politics to divide the nation and gain political advantage. This is from your side of the fence. http://thefederalist.com/2016/11/22/govern-well-gop-needs-drop-identity-politics/ That's right wing talk radio and Fox News talking comrade. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! How about backing that assertion up with evidence? And Republicans aren't ideologues? Who do you think you are kidding here? Both parties have ideologues. But one party has become more ideological and more dysfunctional than the other owing to its media echo chambers where Republicans need never be confronted with an inconvenient truth, and that's is the Republican Party.
That does seem to be the focus of young Democrats. And I think that is where the party has failed. Though I would argue there is no such thing as "Free" healthcare and education, it is still the perception of the young that those things should be provided by the government. Ending political corruption and corporate donations is also a big one with young voters. I think they need to focus on social issues that have relevance to everyone, stop playing minority groups. Healthcare, education, jobs and national security should be the focus. If they float too far left they will lose many voters. "Poison" is a good choice of words. I agree. Identity politics is a distraction and only divides people.
When we say "free" we mean via taxing the rich, many countries have done this to pay for "free" education and "free" healthcare, and as a result have a higher standard of living and greater social stability then we do. Again the USA is ranked 31st in healthcare despite spending per capita more than any other country, all the countries above us have signifigently more goverment in their healthcare, goverment works for healthcare, fact. Does that mean we need communism, no of course not, for diffrent industries diffrent system, test polices, revise, test again, repeate, keep adapting as someone is always trying to find away to game the system. So we agree then? Of course you don't agree on the social issues like the above, or minimium wage increase (how about a maxium wage: the highest earner in a company can't earn more than say 40 times the lowest) or basic income garentee. Another issue we may agree on in corruption in politics, which needs to be right up there or else nothing else can get done.
Everyone has failed. Republicans have failed as well as Democrats. Obamacare was the Republican healthcare plan until Democrats supported it. Then all of a sudden it became Obamacare complete with death panels....funny how that works. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! In most other developed countries healthcare and education are considered investments. They are both necessary requirements for a healthy economy. The end of political corruption and big money in politics are issues embraced and supported by the Democratic Party and have been eschewed by Republicans. It was a Republican Supreme Court which unleashed vast sums of dark money from concealed donors into our political system and it was a Republican Congress which has steadfastly resisted doing anything about it. I don't think trying to be Republican wannabes is going to help the Democratic Party. Healthcare has been the focus. That's why we have Obamacare. Democrats did what no party had been able to do. That's pretty big. But in doing so, it opened the Democrats to a "yuge" Republican misinformation campaign. Now that people understand Obamacare, they like it.
