What do we know about the DEVIL ?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Ted Grant II, May 18, 2017.

  1. Ted Grant II Registered Senior Member

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    Some people say that in order to get to Heaven, you have to believe certain things.
    For example, you have to believe God exists, that Jesus is his son, etc.
    The Devil knows first hand that God exists, that Jesus is his son.
    Therefore, the Devil passes the tests.

    We know the Devil has certain, albeit limited, supernatural powers.

    For example, in the Bible, the Devil takes Jesus up a high mountain/building.
    He offers Jesus anything he can see, if Jesus will worship him.
    How could he do that to the Son of God / God ?

    In the book of Job, God allows the Devil to torment Job.

    According to another book, the Devil tempts king David to conduct a census.

    What is the source of the Devil's power ?

    Also, the Devil must be really dumb.
    He knows exactly what is going to happen to him if he doesn't repent.
    But he won't (according to Revelation).
     
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  3. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    "The Devil" is not an entity. He's a plot device.
     
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  5. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    If the Satan and Jesus were both into MMA, who would win in a fight?

     
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  7. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    That's where you draw the line at plausibility?
    Where does God's power come from?


    The Devil said:
    "I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints."

    ...or was that Billy Joel?
     
  8. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Has it occurred to you that the Devil might be a personification - a metaphorical literary device, employed for the purposes of religious teaching - of certain human drives considered reprehensible? Or do you just read your bible like children's book?
     
  9. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    According , the devil know very well the scriptures, and so do you. In what seminary did you learned them ?
    As for me if you want to see the devil according to the common Spanish " rajunia mi piel i veras al diablo"
    Scratch my skin then you will see the devil. In other words do me some damage to me and the devil will appear in me, ( no love but anger )
     
  10. birch Valued Senior Member

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    3,778
    The devil of the bible is understood to be the ruler and true power over the world and gives incentives to those who follow him. that does make sense, even in allegory and metaphorically. devil is base nature as well as corruption. that is personified in nature pretty well .

    the allegory where the devil tells jesus if he would bow to him, then he would grant the world's riches and power to him indicates that he is in control.

    this is much more accurate metaphorically than some of the other passages in the bible which paint god (supposedly good) as in control as even if he was, it is irrevelant since he has given satan/devil domain over the world/nature. in effect, good has betrayed and thrown good people under the bus.

    thats not it. it just means good does not have as much power here as evil does because the way the universe/universal laws are structured. it's the recipe.

    the concept of god being over or above the devil is god (of their religion) representative of ultimate or higher truth, regardless of the situation/circumstance or outcome.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2017
  11. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    3,066

    So you know all about him. So what should we do to get rid of him from my skin, so he will not torment us and give us a peaceful life ?
     
  12. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    The Devil, in Christian mythology, is a competing God, one we only know about from the slanderous stories in the Bible. God says we can have slaves, Satan says we can have knowledge.
     
  13. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    My God does not say to be slave . But you and us are slaves to our desires and wants, and Yhashua told us on how to free ourself from the desires and unneeded wants .
    Satan promotes our desires and so we are kept as slaves.
    Doesn't your Buddhism promotes self control by meditating ? Why do you adhere to the name Buddha ?
     
  14. kx000 Valued Senior Member

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    The devil is imperfectly moral, the opposite of a maximally.
     
  15. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Seems to be an oxymoron.

    If slavery means being prevented from acting with freedom, and I am certainly acting on my desires and wants, how is it possible to be a slave to them?

    I'm literally doing exactly what I want.
     
  16. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    I am sure if you are addicted to drugs , cigaret,cigars, liquor, pornography, and others . you analized yourself as an oxymoron and you need help . Of course you act upon your freedom , but your desire keeps you enslaved.
     
  17. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Wait. If I worship Satan, I can get some beer?

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  18. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    If he analised himself he sounds like an unusually flexible homosexual.
     
  19. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    Your god doesn't say to be a slave, it says you can own a slave. This is not a moral leader. Our desires are a good thing. Desire for knowledge, to transcend our circumstances, to grow. God hates this. His teaching and example was against the new, which is why he was against the so-called fall, which was really a form of liberation.

    Although I was never truly a Buddhist, I did practice Zen Buddhist meditation. I have since thrown Buddha in the rubbish heap where he belongs. Not that he was wrong, this is what he wanted. It was never about self control, it was about realizing the nature of self, which is illusion. There is nothing to control. To control the self is to doubly reinforce an illusion. Buddha was also a liberator.
     
  20. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Notes Around

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    Click for the law of Satan.

    I admit such answers leave me wondering after their purpose. Sure, okay, the Devil is a plot device, a literary element, whatever. Great. Now, what?

    The truth of the matter is that no amount of atheistic wishing away of religious pretense can change the fact that these non-entities still have real effect in the real world. As such, our (ahem!) literary criticism ought to be something a little more substantial than, well ... that ... or, you know, so says me.

    For my part, I'm looking at the topic post and reminding myself that the Devil most certainly did not posture that bit of deceptive nonsense; a proper Adversary would have done a better job.

    What do we know about the Devil? Precisely nothing.

    What have we speculated? Oh, quite a bit; it's a really long catalog.

    What does that speculation mean? Well, the psychoanalysis is really complex, and generally not worth undertaking for the worthless benefit of insincere inquiry, and toward that end I am uncertain what to make of simplicity of our topic post.

    More colloquially: What do we know about the Devil? Quite a bit; has anyone a clue where we ought to begin going through it?

    • • •​

    In truth, Dave, I'm just curious: That is what you came up with? Where does the utility of that inquiry come from?

    I honestly think your particular approach falls under the rubric of giving articles of faith too much credit; you did, after all, answer the question. Satan's power comes from God; if you attend closely, the story tells us that "Satan", as such, is a faithful servant.

    • • •​

    General note ... Look, all I'm saying is that if you have a bunch of delusional people standing there, babbling about their delusion, and how it works and what it tells them, the one thing we can't say is, "What are they talking about? I don't know, they won't say anything." I'm sorry that what people tell each other isn't always two plus two equaling six so that someone else can protest and feel better about being right, but human beings just aren't that simple.

    • • •​

    I always like the part where we examine the rules by throwing out the rule book.

    Meanwhile, ontologically, the Devil is the Devil because God needs a Devil, full stop.
     
  21. C C Consular Corps - "the backbone of diplomacy" Valued Senior Member

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    Is that the Red Devil or the WYATT DEBBLE?

    - - - - - -
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
  22. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Sometimes, the answer "don't try to find logic in it" is too heavy-handed an approach.

    I can, for a time, suspend my disbelief for the sake of examining some internal logic. It is similar to examining the internal logic of, say, the Star Trek universe.*
    Someone who wants to understand the logic of Star Trek is obviously sufficiently immersed in it that an answer of "its just a movie" will be unsatisfactory.

    *I am not deliberately, directly comparing God to a work of fiction, I am simply saying that, in both cases, there's an explanation, and then there's a meta-explanation.

    As you pointed out, there's no question that God - the belief therein - affects our real world. I'm not always gunning to dismantle theist's beliefs.

    To clarify, my approach was not intended to directly imply that the Devil's power comes from God.

    I just thought asking about the Devil is like asking where where do houseplants get their energy. Surely the bigger question is where do any forms of life get their energy. Houseplants are a detail.


    My approach was more of the form: "Where the Devil's power comes from ought to be far down your list of probing questions. Surely, as soon as you grant the existence of God, the first question would be where does God's power come from? The question of where the Devil's power comes from will be much simpler to determine once that question is answered. It may or may not come from God, but you'll have a model of supernatural power to guide you."

    Or: "It's all made up. You can make up your own answer."
     
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  23. birch Valued Senior Member

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    3,778
    that's a good metaphoric point and this type of deception occurs in nature too. god may be the devil and slander/label it's competition as evil or exactly what it is as a projection to falsify detection etc.

    smoke and mirrors.
     

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