What does God want?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by James R, Jun 8, 2018.

  1. Musika Registered Senior Member

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    As mentioned already, its not so much that memes are offensive, but rather a poor substitute for critical thinking.
     
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  3. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    As mentioned already, you are beyond belief.

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  5. Musika Registered Senior Member

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    Actually its an interesting point how we attempt to integrate fellowship (or even the unity of all life) within society. Society, by it's very nature is fractured into different classes so its always tricky territory.
    For instance even the notion of equality (for the sake law, democracy, etc) is a transcendental position (after all, if no one is actually materially equal, why should we get equal rights?) in secular society (irony much?), ..... yet I don't think anyone would cite the difficulty in navigating an even course in this civil field as grounds for rejecting them outright.

    Of course you can talk of things being done more successfully or less so, however.
     
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  7. Musika Registered Senior Member

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    Meanwhile, your over reliance on memes gives you nothing but belief.
     
  8. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    I left you with the last word in the other thread. Does your ego require it here as well.

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  9. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I would very strongly urge you to rethink that (bolded by me) posit. Equal rights are not equatable to skill sets, wealth, or power, bestowed by a transcendental maker. Just because the BOR says so, does not make it true.
    It has more to do with respect for an individual's secular right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, at all levels.
    And if I may add, "freedom of thought", which is specifically restricted by religious dogma.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  10. Musika Registered Senior Member

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    I wasn't suggesting they were.

    For that to be valid, somewhere down the track you must be introducing something other than a material analysis of the situation (after all, if we are all different according to any material criteria you care to indicate, why do we deserve equal rights/votes etc?) .... but that aside, its plainly obvious that implementing these ideals has a turbulent history, yet I'm pretty sure no one would cite such problems as a basis for dismissing or downgrading claims of their validity in society.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  11. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Because our representatives in congress do in fact represent the least of us. Working poor people pay taxes too and usually at a greater relative rate than the rich and powerful.
    Religions do not pay taxes at all. Why should they have right to representation?
     
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  12. Musika Registered Senior Member

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    So if I finance congress to a greater extent (regardless whether we are talking qualitatively or quantitatively) I am due greater rights/representation than you?

    I'm just trying to understand how you think equality should work in your books.
     
  13. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    I expect donations to churches enables you to claim it off your taxes...or does it ?
    Well if tax deductible then the giver pays less tax because that income that is given to the religious organisation avoids tax and the recipient the religion pays no tax...
    Is it that way over there?

    If so that could do with reform maybe...its not fair really a d there seem to be some folk who exploit the system.
    No tax on charitable work maybe?
    A yways speculation wont change things but no tax no representation seems fair.
    Alex
     
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  14. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    All players should pay for their chips at least ...I suppose the delivery of groups of voters pays the price to present a powerful lobby.

    Alex
     
  15. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    That is what you posited in post #163 and #167 and is what I objected to.
    Almost exactly as written;
    "all persons are endowed with the same fundamental rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness".
    Personally I should like to see additional legislation stating something like; "And all persons contribute a share commensurate with their ability to pay toward the implementation and enforcement of these rights".
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  16. Musika Registered Senior Member

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    I suggested the inevitable segregation within society, from congressmen to carpet cleaners, from judiciaries to jail residents, arises from material differentiation. If you are over laying all this varigation within a greater context of equality, you are introducing something which has a basis in transcendence (?) since any sort of material analysis gives no two equal results.

    Ah! Social communism that communicates in capital.
    Definitely sounds gulag friendly!

    I mean someone in prison has a commensurate ability to pay for the and enforcements of civil rights at maybe -10% or lower.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  17. Michael 345 In China - finding my way :) Valued Senior Member

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    Considering he never answers the prayers of the god bothers I would contend that's a big hint he wants to be left alone

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  18. Musika Registered Senior Member

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    So if you have groups of voters gaming the system of equality, the solution is to game it accordingly ..... sounds problematic.
     
  19. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Throw your chip on the table and spin the wheel.
    Alex
     
  20. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    No it's in the Bill of Rights, an instrument for fairness in a democracy.
    Yes then you do no longer have a democracy. You'll have a Gulag friendly autocracy.
     
  21. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    Why don't you just respond to what I said?
     
  22. Musika Registered Senior Member

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    Your additional ideas on the basis of equality are certainly not in any of the documents (BoR or DoI) that establish the unalienable rights within american democracy (or the means to implement them).



    Yes, that is a possibility if you focus on investment of capital into the "implementation and enforcement" (aka "administration") of rights as the basis for equality .... a direction that the composers of the bill of rights not only didn't seem to advocate but went to great lengths to avoid.
     
  23. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I know that my perspective is from a more modern standpoint.
    Consider that at that time people of color were considered to be only 3/4 equal to whites. In fact, the original document lacked many positive qualities which were later addressed with 33 Amendments, of which 27 were implemented.

    But the unalienable rights as set forth in the Declaration of Independence is often considered the foundation of the Constitution.
    They may be described in many ways, but English jurist Sir William Blackstone wrote in 1766, "these may be reduced to three principal articles:
    1. the right of personal security (life);
    2. the right of personal liberty; and,
    3. the right of private property.."
    Note that this was later modified to read the right to "pursuit of happiness", a more liberal approach.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018

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