What does it mean to be"treated like a lady"?

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by sculptor, Oct 30, 2016.

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  1. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Might also want to state the name of the contraption Donald Trump would use to get rid of the stray cats if elected.

    Ah, WTH

     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2016
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  3. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    I'm still waiting.

    No response from such big men?
     
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  5. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    OK come on. This thread is a tribute to Salvador Dali right? Is it his birthday?

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  7. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Well I can't help you. It wasn't too subtle for the rest of us.
     
  8. Confused2 Registered Senior Member

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    Looks like it's either the "Spot the Trump supporter" thread or the "Spot the loon" thread - or possibly both at the same time.
     
  9. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Always a good idea. But of course the problem is that we all have different standards of what comprises "civilized" behavior.

    For example, there are, literally, millions of people who believe that homosexual practices are "uncivilized." In fact, a good many of those people believe that people choose their sexual orientation and therefore many have chosen to engage in sexual practices that they find abhorrent.

    I can almost understand this. I, personally, believe that people choose to be gun nuts. So when your son comes home very late, a day early, and you hear the door open very quietly at 3am, and you grab your phallic symbol (whoops, I meant to write "your gun"), and discover that you've killed your own beloved boy, this isn't a "tragic accident." It's YOU having chosen to be an uncivilized asshole.

    If this is how the right-wingers feel about sexual preference, then by the goddess, I have a perfect right to feel EXACTLY the same way about the National Rifle Assholes.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2016
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  10. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I agree, but we could begin by respecting others as you would have them respect you. It is one of the most profound messages in our Constitution and Bill of Rights, that in the abstract "all persons are created equal". A side-walk sweeper is no less a person than the side-walk owner. A woman is no less a person than a man and vice versa.

    Oddly, the reason why women in Muslim countries must wear burkas, is based on the concept that man is unable to control his sexual instincts when exposed to a scantily clad woman. In effect the woman is held responsible for man's weaknesses and baser instincts.
    Thus in Muslim countries "lady-like behavior" consists of completely covering oneself. I do not call this civilized, but rather oppressive.
     
  11. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    A similar social condition exists in Hindu countries which practice the *caste* system, which is reminiscent of our days of slavery, when persons of African descent were not considered worthy of equal respect. Not very civilized, IMO.

    Of course Trump had to take this uncivilized attitude (and behavior) several steps deeper down the rabbit's hole.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2016
  12. Bells Staff Member

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    Historically, it was sexist. It was a means to keep women in their place. It was a set of rules imposed on women on how they should behave and treated accordingly.

    In modern times, it is still sexist, because of the history of the way those particular words were used in the past. It still imposes behaviour on women to fulfill a male stereotype of how a "lady" should act and be treated accordingly.

    It is condescending and can cause offense (especially if the person uttering the words add in "little" into the fray).

    I find it ironic that so many men are saying what they think it means, while uttering words like 'being treated with respect' and the like. You are wrong.

    By saying that it means to be treated with respect, you are still imposing behavioural norms on women. She is still expected to behave in a respectful manner, like "a lady".

    The terms "treated like a lady" is not respectful. The reason being that you are already inferring how a "lady" should behave to be "treated like a lady". You are imposing your views on her, her demeanor and her behaviour to treat her "like a lady". That isn't respectful. It is actually quite controlling.

    What if a woman breaks the social norms you all impose on her? What if she does not behave in a way you think a "lady" should behave? Would you treat her differently? Speak to her differently? Stop treating her "like a lady"?

    You want to be more respectful and less sexist? How about "treat her like a human being".

    See how well you go.
     
  13. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

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    Concerning Alexander:

    There's more than one way to treat a human.
     
  14. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    Perhaps, it has now become obvious why I opened this "can of worms".
    What I had been brought up to indicate deference and respect is now seen by some women as controlling and demeaning.

    Some days, it seems as though black has become white, and red has become blue.

    Simple things like offering a stranger(woman) my seat on the train, etc. have elicited seeming rage from the woman involved. Offering the same seat to an old man elicited a polite "thank you". This "eye of the beholder" part is a tad trickier than i had expected?
     
  15. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Did you report my posts?
     
  16. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    If:
    That was directed at me, then no. I do not do that sort of thing.
    My perspective was that your posts were the antithesis of "lady like" and, more on the order of "gutter snipe".
    ...water off a duck's back petite femme.
     
  17. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Bells:

    At the risk of sounding like I'm protesting too much, I did make a specific point of disavowing any such implied imposition in my posts above. And just to add: I can't say that "treating her like a lady" or telling somebody to "act ladylike" or whatever are terms that I have ever found myself reaching for, for precisely the sorts of reasons you just posted.

    I'm all for imposing the particular behavioural expectation on people (men and women) that they act like decent human beings. It's part of living harmoniously with other people. And personally I try in my "real life" to avoid unnecessary interactions with people (men or women) who can't find it within themselves to recognise that they aren't special or entitled, and that they owe the same courtesies to others that they expect to receive from others.

    "Imposing" is, of course, a loaded term, implying an exercise of power against a person's will. Far be it from me to stop people acting like dicks if they want to. However, given the choice, I choose not to invite them into my personal space if they want to act like that.

    Forget the "lady" part - this isn't specific to women. The short answer is: everyone treats other people differently, depending on whether or not they meet the expected standards of behaviour that one expects in interpersonal interactions. All things being equal (which, of course, they seldom are), there's no reason anybody should have to put up with interacting with obnoxious personalities.

    Oh, and obviously since this is being posted by a moderator of an internet forum we can now have an extended discussion of who is imposing on whom in enforcing standards of behaviour on the forums and so on and so forth. I fully expect this thread to go downhill rapidly from this point onwards, as disgruntled, previously-moderated members complain that their personal right to be a dick hasn't been respected sufficiently and how all moderators are hypocrites. Enjoy!
     
  18. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    It is also seem by some men as being controlling and demeaning. It is even - in the past and to this day - consciously used to control and demean, one occasion. That is because it was and is in fact controlling and demeaning , in practice, in the real world.

    Just as its introduction here, on this forum, in 2016, in the middle of the Trump fiasco, is an extension of that function.
    Able, vigorous, competent women you treat as "an old man"?

    The eye of the beholder is not the eye having trouble focusing, here.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2016
  19. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    Bells has spoken... just take you'r spankin like a man an shut the hell up

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  20. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    Why would offering a woman/lady my seat, or holding a door for a woman/lady, be deemed controlling and demeaning?
     
  21. Ophiolite Valued Senior Member

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    Well, if the female in question does not consider her gender is in anyway relevant to her identity and makes this position clear, then I shall be perfectly happy to treat her like a human being rather than treating her like a lady. (Though since the one is a subset of the other it seems a pointless distinction.) I shall apply exactly the same approach to gentlemen who advise me they do not wish to be treated as gentlemen, but as human beings.

    It would be nice, perhaps even ladylike, if all females could get together and agree a position on this. That way I would not have to be cajoled by one group of females for failing to hold a door open for them, while another group lambast me for doing so. (And in each case I have simply been treating them as human beings finding it more or less appropriate to open the door based upon proximity, personal load capacity, female load capacity, urgency of movement, and the myriad of other details that lead to a decision on to open or not to open.)

    And, almost as an aside, when do you intend to start respecting me for not exactly adhering to your very precise views on how males and females should interrelate. You don't have a monopoly on being correct.
     
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  22. Confused2 Registered Senior Member

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    The manners that were taught 50 (or more) years ago aren't the same as the manners taught now. I suspect Scuptor's 'lady' includes any female from (say) Michelle Obama to (for example) a drunk whore (confirmation please). The essence of good manners is (was) that the other person should never be made to feel at a disadvantage as a result of your age rank strength or any other advantage you may possess. Whether or not the other person chooses to show respect or contempt is their affair and theirs alone.

    As a male, if offerred a seat I might say "Thank you but I'm not that old yet - you stay where you are" - I don't see any potential for offence as a result of a polite (pleasant) gesture. Locally young, old, male and female tend to hold doors open for each other - a nice feature of the area I live in.
     
  23. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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