Then you should have said so. One cannot be both a friend and a therapist to someone. If you do that, you put the relationship at stake. The best thing you could do is to stop playing my therapist, stop treating me as if I am your patient or your student. But you wouldn't do that, despite my many pleas. I sent you the article to speak on my behalf. It is my last resort. I normally would not send such things, neither give friends or people I communicate with "instructions" to how to treat me. But this is for the sake of understanding, in hindsight, what was happening. But with you, I would first have to prove to you why a friend acting as a therapist is endangering the friendship. I couldn't do that, I still can't. I told you enough times that you are smothering me, I asked you enough times to stop, I swore at you enough to make it clear to you that your treatment is no good for me -- but it was all nothing to you. As if my words carry no importance. You never respected my right to feel the way I feel. You sought "alternatives", or justifications, rationalizations, but refused to accept the reality of me. As if my feelings are negotiable. Most of the conversations we had should have never taken place, never. Including this one.
being "yourself" is an innate behavior and one that cannot be taught by another. therefore, yes, i believe is is "impossible to NOT be yourself
I'm not above anyone. Everything I say applies to myself as well. It should go without saying. Not just for me, for everyone. The accusations didn't stop when I stopped, and I ended up stopping to do anything. Like writing letters, sending gifts or talking about religion. That's now seems to be part of what is being held against me: that I shied back from your standards. I'm not your therapist. In fact, I asked you if you would ever consider seeing one - probably the most dangerous thing I could say to you. [post=894179]I never wanted to be your therapist[/post], I never asked to be. The fact that I seemed to continue being one after you asked me to stop meant, to me, that you were having a problem with more than my intentions, but with my very presence. I know I was eager to help, and that it was a mistake. I know you didn't like me mentioning God, but I assure you I didn't do it to insult your beliefs. I appreciate that. You don't have to. I'm not completely blind to what happened, even if I don't understand all of it. I don't put much stock in swearing. It simply feels like someone is trying to bully me into accepting abuse, so it has no effect on me. You said I was giving you too little by way of friendship, and at the same time you were accusing me of smothering you. I didn't know whether to go backwards or forwards, so I stayed where I was. I'm sure you could have interpreted this as arrogance or even apathy. Your feelings were [post=895352]never negotiable[/post]. You feel what you feel, and that's how you should feel. But our feelings (notice that I'm including myself) aren't always justified. Sometimes we feel fear when there is nothing to fear. What I saw as a danger to our friendship was that you thought your feelings determined the reality of everybody around you - including mine. That if you felt rejected, you were rejected. I couldn't help but disagree. And even if I had known then I was sacrificing our friendship by doing so, I would still have disagreed: I agree, there was a lot of repeating ourselves. But there were lots that I felt was necessary to say when you didn't think it was. Like this one:
You piece of Christian shit. You are not my therapist, but that never stopped you from playing one. Have you no heart? No heart at all??
Water and Jenyar, Honestly, I think this shit is way too deep at this point, emotions are too high, and you guys should just chill out for a while and in a month or two, if you guys want to re-open a conversation to try to put a relationship together or just get closure, do so. We have plenty of our lives left to fix things or understand things, we are still young and a month or two isn't going to do anything but get some distance between you and your feelings. This is getting to be a bit much for the public forum, in my opinion - and I really don't think you are going to solve anything this way, because you are just adding fuel to the fire - it seems to me that new problems and misunderstanding is being added with every post. If you guys really think you can do this now, I suggest you do it by email - it will bring everything down a notch.
I called him and made it clear to him I don't want to have anything to do with him. I think he got the message.
Sorry, Cole. This thread was a mistake. I grossly underestimated how much would be necessary for just a mutual understanding, never mind a reconciliation. There are too many misunderstandings to fix over any distance greater than a few meters (and with a therapist). It is impossible to make myself understood without adding more fuel to the fire, and it will take more than one lifetime to burn out by itself.
Maybe, but I don't think you two caring about each other was a mistake. I think there is a lot to learn from your experiences with each other, and hopefully you two can do that. I think when some time goes by you'll both have benefited from it, as painful as it looks from where I am.
Don't let yourself get off so lightly, Jenyar. For as far as I can see of it you have never deserved one moment of her time to start off with. I am appalled by your continued ingratitude, the want of appreciation of the opportunity you've lost. And as to what would be necessary for a mutual understanding what did you yet supply to make any sense of? I happened to think that Nejka deserved a little more by way of respect than this or this The first thing that I wanted to know was if you did care, what she means to you, and what did we see instead? Some sort of elaborately tentative toss off as if to test if anything may or may not actually come of it, but with not even the energy to ejaculate. Fear before faith. Rather than be yourself you beat yourself. How pathetic. What an extraordinary embarrassment. --- RH.
I'm afraid you misunderstood what I meant, re: "If it's true that I do not really care, it makes no difference" (in answer to your question "What difference does it make?") In other words: if the accusation that I don't really care is true, then it would make no difference. Perhaps you think I pre-empted a guilty verdict and shot myself in the foot with it, but it isn't for me to decide my own guilt or innocence anyway. The outcome does make a difference to me, but I didn't expect the difference it makes to me could override the difference it makes to her. And re: "Sorry, I was rambling. It's later than usual... (isn't it always?)" I was referring to my 1.36 AM edit, which was aimed at no-one in particular. A rambling. It seems I must get used to uncharitable interpretations, but coming from someone who has been the victim of some himself, I hoped you would at least try. As it happens, I was emphatically assured that nothing would come of it, and that nothing I said could possibly be sincere after my actions had exposed my real character. But I said it anyway.
That is right, as if one could deserve someone's friendship in the first place. You talk as if she owed you something; as if I should owe you something; as if the World should owe you something; like everything is somehow in debt to you. Think again. --- RH.
What? None of you ever owed me anything! There was nothing forcing anyone to accept my apology, was there? What I got from her, or from anyone, was given freely by them - whether it was insults or compliments or anything else. And just like anyone, I would like to be understood as I intended to be, but I can't expect it from anyone. Nothing that belongs to another person - whether it's their forgiveness, friendship, attention, opinions or actions - is mine to demand. What were the charges against me, again?
Then quit your squealing about "uncharitable interpretations", and preferably with no further pontification upon the relative merit of squealing. If you don't know by now...... ---- RH.
I apologize for hijacking this thread. It is just too frustrating for me to speak to J. in private, it is as if we were talking at eachother, not with eachother. Never getting anywhere. I don't feel heard, so speakng in public is a last resort, so that perhaps other people aid to further things to resolution. Thank you all who have participated.
Why not, just for once, tell the simple truth of it? You wanted to hurt him, to revenge youself, willing to manipulate anybody and anything to that end. You had no intention to resolve. --- RH.
I was helpless and powerless in my sadness and anger. In hindsight, yes, I wanted revenge. I wanted to see if, for once, something from me can get to him.
