what is beyond the known universe?

Heat death, well, if the Universe had been around for ever, and was expanding as we know it is today, eventually all the heat in the Universe, radiated by all those stars, would be spread thinner than the cosmic microwave background is now, and eventually, there would not be enough matter, nor light elements to fuse in the nuclear reactions which power stars, and so there would be cooling clumps of matter, incapable of forming stars, radiating into the infinite Universe, and the CMB would tend towards zero. That's heat death.

On infinite regression, he said;

'always' is the part I was taking task with, as it appears to equate to infinity here. Unless by that he means 'since the beginning of time' which implies as the rest of us think, that the big bang created both matter, energy, and space/time.

 

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Isn't the big bang pretty much a fact ?

 

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Well I think so. Largely because 'continuous creation' has too many problems, and 'The Big Bang' so much evidence.

But people like to keep using phrases like 'for ever' (like, God/The Universe doesn't need a beginning, it's been around 'for ever') without contemplating that the cop out to excuse a beginning gives them new problems.

 

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This is the kind of question that always made me think that human beings are quite crazy.

1. Does it really matter to us other than for the sake of knowing if universe is expanding or not? or infinity or not?
2. Is it worth the time knowing for sure if there was a big bang or it was always the same?
3. What's the whole point even in knowing if there is life on other planets when we haven't even learned to take care of ourselves in this planet?


There are various types of knowledge which has absolutely not worth the amount of time and energy invested into finding it. Usually it appears under the banner of progress and development for humanity but in reality, the same knowledge have successfully managed to inflict further fear upon humans.

 

But wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that time 'started' when the universe 'started' ?
If so, in that light the universe really has always been.
And if not, at least time has always been

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“ Originally Posted by Enmos
Why ?
Also, I did not see any reference to infinite regression in his post though. ”

You speak of the universe expanding, etc as if I said it always existed in its present form. Then you quote me saying "in some form".

You believe something came from nothing???

 

That's what the 'Big Bang' essentially says, yes. If you say 'something comes from something', I'm going to ask you where the first something came from. What you going to say?

 

Yeah, I think the big bang created space/time. But I don't think that Stanger is thinking 'always' has been since the big bang.

 

No. It is the only explanation we have at present but has enough serious problems with it that it is probably wrong.

 

Continuous creation just needs a closed universe where black holes can in some way, at some time, release fundamental particles.

The big bang's evidence has a number of interpretations. It also relies on a lot of fanciful ideas that we have no evidence for.

 

Right. In some form, all energy and matter must have existed before the universe but no one knows how. We only have guesses.

 

“ Originally Posted by StrangerInAStrangeLa
You believe something came from nothing??? ”

No, that is not part of Big Bang theory. Big Bang theory claims before the BANG! everything existed in 1 tiny dense bit.
We have no evidence anything ever came from nothing. Observation & investigation show everything comes from something. If you claim something can come from nothing, you have the responsibility to provide evidence.
If anything ever has happened or ever will without a cause, anything(s) can happen any time(s), any number of times for no reason & science has no meaning or purpose.

 

As long as anything has existed, there has been space & time.

 

And a method to explain the CMB, without using conveniently spaced microwave absorption and re-emission agents, .... and red shift, ...

 

Guys get it, Big Bang just suck,
how can you think that a single subatomic particle
can create a single planet ? But wait there are trillions of planets,
stars, galaxies and galaxies cluster.
Time to move on Big Bang is just not right!

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Or maybe it's your "understanding" of it that sucks.

 

It's a matter of scale. It doesn't matter how much energy was created in the big bang, nor how much matter it condensed into, the Universe is comprised of whatever was created at that point. That's as big as it is. It might seem big to us, but there is no way to judge it's scale. Here's a question for you, is the Universe really expanding or is some other dimension collapsing? Did that one higgs boson collapse and create an ever more complicated array of smaller waveforms? Is that collapse still occurring?

 

I think were thinking about it all wrong. Were thinking like ancient mapmackers thought that the earth was flat and somewhere it ended. But in reality it is round and no matter what you do you will never fall off.

I think the same about the universe, you cannot fall off because it is round. not flat.

 

Where I live, I can see for maybe five miles to the north. Some mornings though perfectly clear where I am, I can see a haze a mile or more away yet I drive there and there is nothing there. It is a distance haze. I think that is all the CMB is. The problem with this, expansion, etc is that we basically have a "photograph" of the universe to study. Our life times are so short that nothing outside our galaxy moves from our viewpoint so we cannot have ultimate proof of something like expansion.

Redshift I have explained elsewhere as gravitational redshift since the universe is full of gravitational sources. Light always travels at light speed and if in the second it takes light to travel 299,792,458 metres, space expands by half a nanometre, so what? Light is still going to travel at exactly the same distance. It will just take longer to get to it's destination. If a photon could be affected by such a totally insignificant force, imagine what would happen when it got hit by Earth's gravity? It would be blueshifted to hard gamma rays.

 

It is a myth that people (other than creationists) thought the Earth was flat in much of the last 2,000 years:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth


As all large things in space are spherical, I suspect the universe is too, and that like them, it spins.


If you believe in the BB/expansion, then the universe would be a 4D hypersphere with the universe it's 3D "skin". But while the skin may look flat on a balloon, as it would look to a 4D being as it has no fourth physical dimension, 3D allows for any thickness to us 3D beings.