What is reality?

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by birch, Oct 30, 2016.

  1. birch Valued Senior Member

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    This is a quote by spellbound from another topic but im going to use this to expound on the concept of reality or what we think reality is.

    People tend to think reality is the truth forgetting lies (essentially falsehood or make believe or creation in the mind) are also reality.

    There are multiple levels or dimensions of reality affecting eachother.

    Case in point, misinformation, rumors, beliefs, feelings, bias, even outright lies are acted on all the time producing a timeline of events that wouldnt otherwise occur. The lie can become the truth also.

    It can be as simple as when one believes something even by misinformation or misunderstanding and acts on it creating tangible ripple effects.

    We think the truth is what causes events but lies and deception do just as much to the point even if discovered, the effects are already done etc. Think about this fine point of 'reality' or 'truth'. Think about how people have acted out on some belief or rumor, even if with regrets later its already done etc. Think about how some are favored or not depending on perception or even falsehood but the point is the effects will be real even if based on a false premise. This applies to many scenarios. This is why reality is so 'unreal' or 'crazy' in some respects and often based on quite hallucinatory ideas or misinformation or ignorance. Think about the duality of lies and truth coexisting to affect reality.

    So there is a fine line in the larger scheme of life between imagination and hardcore reality as even hardcore reality events can be induced by imagination or simply beliefs, or ignorance and even total knowing deception. You would think it shouldnt be allowed to but its like an unfortunate paradox. The paradox being the truth is or was the truth but it doesnt always win out. Strange isnt it?

    Reality is like one giant hallucination in many ways as we have to wonder is so creation or the creative so therefore more relative than as concrete as we might assume.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2016
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  3. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Reality I suspect is more relational than substantive. We find it hard to shake off our substantive delusion. We always posit some "stuff" forming the substrate of reality. Matter..energy..spacetime..the quantum vacuum..
    But physics shows this stuff to break down into relationships. A quark isn't made of anything. It is defined by it's relations and interactions with other quarks. Reality reduces to pure dynamic interactivity. There is no absolute "stuff" there..
     
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  5. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

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    I'm not so sure... I mean, just because we cannot presently tell what a Quark or Lepton is comprised of (or if it is comprised of smaller pieces at all) doesn't make it any less real - it is still a physical entity in its own right, regardless of if anything or anyone is there to observe it; would that not constitute "real" or "absolute" as a result?
     
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  7. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Yes..it is real. But it is real due to certain stable relationships to other quarks and to its environment. Being insubstantial iow doesn't equate to being unreal. The theory of relativity is insubstantial and yet quite real. Does a quark exist when noone is looking at it? Yes...given the static geometrical relationships composing it.
     
  8. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

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    Ah, okay - much the same as with the effects / relationships with the universal forces (Strong Nuclear, Weak Nuclear, Gravity, Electromagnetic being the big four). There has been some thought that there is a fifth fundamental force:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_force#Possible_evidence
    I'm curious to see what they find as they continue testing!
     
    Magical Realist likes this.
  9. C C Consular Corps - "the backbone of diplomacy" Valued Senior Member

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    Reality could be construed as "that which one cannot control by thought or will alone". So as to dodge having to grab onto or choose a particular substantive, metaphysical school of thought (which entertains items like a primal substance, absolute world, ultimate "truth", etc).

    Additional factors can be thrown in like longevity, consistency, and reliability. If one desires either the amnesia or modified memories of an oneiric avatar to be prevented from qualifying non-lucid dreams as brief experiences that also behave independently of the psychological affairs behind the avatar's perceptual POV and its manifested body / embodiment.

    With similar standards of dismissal for the original "augmented reality" of hallucinations. Those "extra affairs" slash phantoms which aren't publicly or inter-subjectively available for other people, aside from one's verbal and descriptive reports. Which thereby makes that latter limitation itself an additional disqualifier.

    An absolute reality by its very nature of being immune to relationships would not be a reality, or something encounter-able as a non-representation or non-construct in experience. At best it would be the provenance of this presented, "inter-dependent stuff" that we conceive as a world. (IOW, just drop any kind of "world" label which absolute, ultimate, and so-forth typically served as adjectives for.)

    Such is a product of reasoning or a potentially over-extended belief in "cause" (if not outright metaphysical "hand-waving"). It also treats the assumption of our extrospective experiences being a ectype or representation of a "higher or absolute" version of the sensed world as some kind of given. Rather than one option that has been dogmatically exalted to excluding other option(s).

    Calling an "absolute or ultimate" the provenance of experienced reality is generic enough to leave it open to other options. If the provenance was declared absolute and a cause of, archetype of, etc, of exhibited reality... Then it would be a one-way or asymmetrical relation due to the fact (or by definition) that a change or modification can't be induced in it by a return relation from what it engenders or parallels as an archetype.

    The microphysical and so-called abstract furniture of the universe which physics deals with would seem to (ontological) reductively render everyday perceptions into illusions. But they aren't really something metaphysical or transcendent, but are simply more of the phenomenal slash detectable "parts, components, and events" that structurally (relationally) constitute our observed level of reality and the psychological effects of brain / body functioning which equate to those "everyday" presentations / feelings.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2016
  10. river Valued Senior Member

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    Hence the archetype in Astrology
     
  11. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Apparently there are at least two types of reality.
    Mind dependent reality and Mind independent reality.
    It is argued that only the first is relevant as reality can only be via personal interpretation.

    Is Santa Clause real?

    Of course he is but he is not as well.

    Reality may mean personal perception or what is actually out there but how can we comprehend what is out there except to bring it into our personal reality.

    Alex
     
  12. dumbest man on earth Real Eyes Realize Real Lies Valued Senior Member

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    Reality?

    Two quotes from the Late Robin Williams :
    " Reality, what a concept!"
    " Reality is for people who can't handle Drugs!"
     
  13. birch Valued Senior Member

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    The absurdity and retardation of reality but with tangible effects, among many crazy examples.

    So, as we all know by now, life is often illogical, absurd, assbackward, preposterous and ridiculous and it happens.

    So viewing life or reality without context and only the microcosm of "mechanics" is only one minutaie aspect. Thats the only consistent logic like math. Beyond that it has no jurisdiction of rational or logic or good sense and doesnt have to or even apply. Its a choice and thats why insanity or unfairness can happen.

    People think, especially those who only see concrete universal laws as the only reality miss that is only a vehicle/tool/building block. It is only one aspect of reality and when the rubber meets the road, its a different ballgame.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2016
  14. river Valued Senior Member

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    Hmmm....

    Well it seems through all this "discussion " , I wonder what Helen Keller would think and say ( for those who are not familar with her , she was both deaf and blind ) , about reality ?

    She knows the basics of reality , better than any of us .
     
  15. MenendezJohn Registered Member

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    I think there is just really 1 whole reality surrounding every single one of us, but is that reality fragile like abstract or firm like saying 2+2=4, and that, maybe we get to understand it once we all get a firm grip of the physical phenomenon in every aspect(our brain might still be very primitive for all that info).
    Our mind where created here as something wich came out of it... Or did we came here?

    I have many weird theory of my own but one of them is the middle exponentialism balance... Like every one of us knows that earth is just at the right distance from the sun with the right atmospheric presure and right amount of water with the right amount of gravity, and the big bang had to move at the right velocity, and that all the waves wich make out the sences we persive have to be presice... Its like a prime number that every time it gets to meet all the precises sircustances... It explodes in variety making really incredible things like making life posible, or the variety of colors and sounds and density, volume, etc.

    Soooo if our conciousness is due to physical properties and just that... How we feel so alive in our own reality... Does it has a succession? Would we die and continue somewhere else where we left? Like remembering... Just because there has to be a first time for everything... Or do we die and thats it (sometimes that feels more peaceful knowing how stupid people exist and we have to live with them... And they even can become president u know...)
     
  16. river Valued Senior Member

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    read , the book by Richard Tarnas , " Cosmos and the Psyche " . also , if so inclined , by the same author ; Prometheus the Awakener . ( very short read , 94 pgs , but worth the read )

    river
     
  17. kx000 Valued Senior Member

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    Reality is nature and all things.
     
  18. river Valued Senior Member

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    Sure

    Seen , observed and unseen .

    It is the unseen that intriging.
     
  19. kx000 Valued Senior Member

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    Right, we live by a faithful nature. Take a leap and all.
     

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