What is your opinion of race baiters on sciforums?

Race baiting: "implying that there is an underlying race-based motive in the actions of others towards the group baited, where none in fact exists." --wikipedia--

What is your opinion on the above behavior? State whether you believe race baiters have an ultimately positive or ultimately negative effect on the capacity for liberated and free-thinking dialogue to take place on sciforums. Do you consider race baiting to be a form of trolling or a disruption of the same degree as trolling? Do you view race baiting as potentially insulting to others? Should such behavior be against the rules of the board?

Use this thread to comment on, question, and discuss the practice of race baiting on sciforums.

 

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Whatever, white bread.

 

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Never seen any such behavior, here.

Now, as to the effects of the dickhead racists in actual evidence here: it's negative and should be discouraged. Fortunately it's often a pretty entertaining process, to discourage them. When called on their behavior, they tend to go all shrill and do dopey stuff like start threads decrying "race-baiting."

If you're going to be a racist, then grow up and take ownership of your ideas. This juvenile nonsense where you want to be a racist, but not be called a racist, is pathetic. If you don't want to be called a racist, then don't say racist things. Or, better yet, don't harbor racist ideas in the first place.

 

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You seem to be identifying with the topic of this thread on a personal level. Why is that..?

As well, can you state what racist statements you are specifically referring to?

 

How can you say that Americans are inherently superior to Iranians and not have that interpreted as racism, given the obvious racial differences between the majorities in both countries? What other reasoning can you give to say that Iranians are less capable, even if they started walking, talking and acting the exact same way? Race baiting sucks, and so does racism, so you should be prepared to explain yourself when you make statements that are difficult to interpret in any other context.

 

It's another form of dishonesty according to that definition. Dishonesty should be ferreted out and destroyed on a science site.

Can't answer that without an explicit technical definition of what "liberated and free-thinking dialog" is supposed to be.

I consider it dishonesty.

Subjective interpretations don't concern me.

Dishonesty should be.

 

That is from an unrelated and nonracial thread. Moreover, that disagreement took place on political and national grounds, not racial grounds. That is like a christian saying their religion is better than islam, and the muslim telling the christian that they are racist because of the differences in the racial majority of its followers when that isn't so. However, that post was satirical anyway.

Please stay on topic.

 

You mean like the ones who say, Americans are more equal than Iranians?

I just ignore them

 

It is not easy to know for sure when someone is finding a way to get out their race based hatred indirectly when they are complaining about reverse discrimination or, yes, there was one thread complaining about the names African Americans were giving their children. That they were weird. It is, clearly, a phenomenon, where people think or correctly assess that a frontal assault with get them some kind of flak they do not want. So they pick a topic that seems more innocent to imply that a race is stupid or mean or unfair or causing all their own problems.

In an world where this ploy is used with some regularly, some of what you are calling race baiting is going to occur in response. Sometimes it will be aimed at the wrong person. But I wouldn't want to make a rule and say no one should every be responded to in this way.

That would reward the BS.

 

Hold on a moment. Do you believe that arguing in favor of the position that such as a thing as "reverse discrimination" exists is a form of race-driven hatred..? That is a neutral argument for several posters here.

 

If I ever see any race baiting on this forum, according to the OP definition, I'll be sure and bring it here for discussion. If this thread is still open.

I have seen some religion baiting - since the OP topic is empty, maybe we could discuss that while we're waiting for the race baiters to show up?

 

For those who are wondering, the main topic that this thread is addressing is this: "Blacks want to retain their "Blackness."

In this thread, Pandaemoni states that I am racist for making these statements:

The first statement is statistically factual and in my estimation, stated in neutral terms. I posted that statement in reply to someone who suggesting that the primary reason that blacks made less money than whites was due to racist employers. My retort suggests that an education gap is responsible. Being less educated makes you less qualified for most jobs than someone with a higher degree of education, correct..? This statement has caused a person to accuse me of racism.

The second statement is a sentiment that I fully believe, and it has been iterated by and supported by several highly respected and well-educated blacks such as Bill Cosby, Larry Elder, Morgan Freeman, and Barack Obama. All quotations by those men were fully sourced. Regardless, because *I* am not black, this statement has caused a person to accuse me of racism.

In my opinion, those accusations are clear cut cases of race baiting.

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This is racist. Because you would have to have a race-based agenda to think that racism against blacks does not effect the way they are educated, how they are dealt with by various government agencies and their officers and how they are treated in the job market. The issue you raise in the first part of the above quote is a factor, as many in black community would say themselves. But it is hardly a full analysis.

The outsider telling a group what is really going on for them and what their problem is often does not have the face value motives they present or even are aware of themselves. And most people, if they look at themselves honestly, notice that they also are highly suspect of strangers telling them what their problems are. But when waxing philosophical on other people or groups, suddenly they expect their own motives to be seen as pure or neutral.

Nah.

 

Why would those statements be racist when coming from a white person and not racist when coming from blacks such as Bill Cosby and Barack Obama who have expressed similar ideals? Furthermore, please state which sentence of mine states that "racism does not affect the way they are educated, employed, and so forth."

Inventing libelous statements and misquoting is bad. Please explain yourself, lest you be guilty of race baiting.

 

Both those beliefs - that the factor you describe accounts ( this time ?!) for the deficiencies in black circumstances, and that Bill Cosby et al ever said anything like that - clearly characterize you as racist.

Why not embrace the term? What is wrong with being racist, in your view?

 

Yeah, SAM is annoying.

 

It's a lot more complicated than you would suggest

One of the tough conflicts surrounding discussions of race is that many people can't seem to consider the issues without making it about race itself. That is, while many liberals make it about economics, education, and psychosocial attitudes, and while they are often incorrect in their assessments thereof, they aren't nearly as exposed to the accusations of racism that a more conservative argument suggesting that blacks are lazy, genetically inferior, or too coddled for being black generally invites.

And there are plenty of people who simply don't recognize that they are making something about race like that, so they resent it when others accuse them of racism.

I read an interesting article today, but haven't come to a conclusion as to what I think about it:

Sweet, Frank W. "So You Think You Understand the Black/White Test-Score Gap". September 1, 2007. Backintyme Essays. February 4, 2010. http://backintyme.com/essays/?p=39 ​

His consideration of the issue is far more complex than any discussion we've had here at Sciforums, or all of them put together, or anything I've encountered in media. Sweet concludes:

... one is reminded of the famous physicist who quipped, "If you think that you understand quantum mechanics, it just shows that you do not understand it." Similarly, if you claim to know the cause and cure of the U.S. Black/White test-score gap, it just shows that you do not understand it.​

And if he is close to correct in his article, it's fair to say that we at Sciforums haven't gotten anywhere near the real sources of the problem. None of us.

 

The comments themselves are not racist. At least I don't take them that way. For the most part it's true... harsh, but true all the same. But saying that "whitey" was completely innocent was not true, but that doesn't make it racist

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He's not saying that being racist is wrong, you are.

Perhaps you should explain?

 

The only meaningful contribution I can offer here is in an anecdotal real life situation.

I have lived and worked most of my life in Florida, a state in the USA whose demographic is composed of people from all over the US, even all over the world. Many retirees move here when they get older and the area has many prime tourist attractions, so, bottom line, there is a very diverse group of people living here.

My work involves business consultation, and while this has taken me many places in the US, only one area has placed me in a position where I have encountered "race-baiting", if I even understand the term properly.

I had a contract for an office in Norfolk, Virginia (much, much different from Florida), and spent a year and a half there helping a client open an office. My area of expertise is in direct marketing, which includes things like direct mail, sweepstakes, internet offers, and, yes, telemarketing. (I'm that person that calls you during dinner...

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Anyway, I ran this office the same way as I have run every other one I have been involved in (50+), using the same standards for hiring and firing. This industry is very statistics driven, so if you don't make your quota, however that may be determined for your particular job function, you are out - end of story.

There was a much higher percentage of black people in the Norfolk area than in any other in which I have worked, and the demographics of the office reflected this. None the less, every time I was in a position where I had to fire someone, or later when the office grew to the point where I wasn't actually running the floor and the supervisors / managers did the firing, a funny thing would happen.

Every time, and I'm talking very close to 100%, if the person was black, they would pull the race card and insist they were only being fired because they were black. This happened even if the supervisor that fired them was black!

I had never experienced this before (at least not at a 90+% rate), and consulted the owners that had contracted my firm (both of which were black) for insight. One of them, the "hands on guy" (as opposed to the other partner, the "money man") said they had no idea but they would handle the next terminations personally to see what was going on. He got the same response!

I can only guess at the reasons for this, they are obviously indigenous to that particular area's culture. I take that back - I can't even guess...

Anyway, that would be my only experience with "race-baiting", and of course I can pull the usual bullshit - "some of my best friends are black" and "my wife is 100% Hispanic", but that really doesn't have anything to do with it, now does it? I'm just curious as to what in the hell would cause one particular region of the US to develop that type of culture when I have never experienced it anywhere else. (Except France, but that's a whole different story...

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Anyone have any ideas?