What is your problem with America?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by radicand, May 19, 2006.

  1. spuriousmonkey Banned Banned

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    24,066
    My problem with America is also one of puzzlement, or should I say dichotomy. There are just a shitload of interesting, intelligent, freethinking and amazing people in the US. However they do not seem to be the face of the US anymore. One day they were.

    That's why I originally wanted to go to the US. It couldn't really all be as bad as people say. You have no clue, but all my friends said I shouldn't go. But I tried to convince them that it isn't so bad and you can only discover a country by living in it.

    Then you arrive and discover the entire system is focussed on and around the narrow-minded, the greedy, the selfish, the hypocritical.

    I'm quite sure the US could be a great nation (again). But at the moment there are just too many things wrong (see the ongoing discussion below). And the wrongs are seen as rights by those in charge and by a large portion of the population.
     
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  3. Chatha big brown was screwed up Registered Senior Member

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    I am not sure where all these ideas are coming from with no examples, I hate it when people make assertions and don't back it up. How can the entire system of any nation be focuses on the narrow- minded, greedy, selfish, and hypocrites? This is similar to saying the entire nation of India is filled with spiritual people. Find an American you are fond of, perhaps even love, and forget about what others tell you. To be honest New York is sort of conniving and can be very racist on a bad day, but nonetheless at the end of the day it’s all about what you are looking for not what others present to you. In Africa intra-racism(Sudan) can be so bad that civil wars break out ever so often; makes New York racism look like central park now doesn't it? Americans are very influencial and it can be very easy to loose sight of yourself.
     
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  5. thedevilsreject Registered Senior Abuser Registered Senior Member

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    its a great nation for the rich, awful for the poor

    anywhere you can be dying on the streets while people leave you is a bad place to be
     
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  7. Neildo Gone Registered Senior Member

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    Radicand, no response?

    - N
     
  8. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Oh poppycock again! America is one of the best places in the world to be poor, particularly if you follow the crowd to L.A. where you can sleep outdoors comfortably most nights and the compulsively liberal locals are generous.

    The most common nutritional problem among America's poor is obesity! Does one really need to say anything more about this issue?

    In America unemployed people on welfare have microwave ovens and cars, something that the working poor don't have in a lot of countries.

    As for dying in the street, you must be talking about violence because you have to be both crazy enough to want to and clever enough to avoid the authorities long enough to get away with it if you're talking about dying of illness or starvation. We take public health seriously in America and nobody would leave a sick or hungry person lying in the street long enough to expire from it. Violence takes its toll but you're still far better off being poor here than in Cairo or Rio de Janeiro.

    The cases of people leaving someone who's been shot or stabbed lying in the street are so rare that absolutely every one of them makes the news. It's usually because they're afraid that whoever shot or stabbed them is still out there and will attack anyone who tries to help them survive. Most of those victims are not entirely "innocent." My heart goes out to the ones who are, but really now, get some perspective. In Africa more people are killed by lightning.
     
  9. radicand Registered Senior Member

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    The only one doing any twisting is you. The war powers resolution is applicable when a president acts alone not when congress has granted authority. Because you say that congress granting the president war powers is unconstitutional (which it isn't it follows the constitution to a tee) does not mean their grant was unconstitutional.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2006
  10. radicand Registered Senior Member

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    Oh absolutely, it seems you did not read your own evidence. In fact, your evidence does rather well in proving my point.

    Therefore, my response is thank you.
     
  11. radicand Registered Senior Member

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    There is no bait, but I am curious whose business were we in when 9-11 came? Furthermore, have you really thought that idea out.

    By your rationale, then anyone has the right attack you simply because you are in their business. It does not matter how involved that is, simply being in someone else business is justificatiion for severe retaliatory measures. By your argument, our supporting a religion group is grounds enough!! That does not wash with me.

    By the way, I think a solid argument against any action on Iraq can be made. I just do not think it can be made on the grounds that Bush is president, there were no wmds, no links to terrorists. That has been clearly established. Additional baseless arguements are the protection of oil ones, I am so glad we are fighting Iraq over control of oil. Those prices are really helping my wallet. However, I think there are better arguments against it.

    Look I have no problem with your arguement logically, but the my problem with your thinking here is that you seem to be supporting the idea that we should never defend ourselves. I am thinking of your "orders" take. However, I will add that all the preparation in world for an attack by mother nature won't stop it. Of course, that argument can be made about terrorism.

    As for your self-esteem argument, I wholeheartedly believe nothing could be further from the truth. The rebelliousness and swagger comes from too much focus onn self esteem and not enough focus on accomplishment.

    "As for corporal punishment, again, everything in moderation and balance. Children absolutely must not grow up believing that they can do anything they feel like without worrying that they'll make somebody angry enough to hit them. They'll end up voting for politicians who don't worry about whether America is making the rest of the world angry and the rest of the world will start hitting America."

    I have gained some respect for your responses from our discussions, but this is simply fallacious thinking. Being in the education field, I know how kids act in class today. This kind of equivocating is entirely unmerited.

    These kids have nothing to fear, because there is no true discipline allowed to correct disruptive and aberrant behavior. Ligation, simplistic curriculums, modern teaching methods (in general) and a focus on everything but educatiing children has led to this sad downfall of American Education.

    This has permeated throughout our society. We keep lowering and lowering our standards. Then, when the worst happened we wonder how we got there?
     
  12. Neildo Gone Registered Senior Member

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    Huh? So you're saying that actions weren't taken to disarm the populace of New Orleans of their arms during a time of crisis when they needed that protection the most?

    Here are the words I said that you asked for me to prove:

    Wow.

    Where exactly am I wrong?

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-368034430006732400&q=katrina guns

    It's nice of you to not even show how I was wrong, just for all of us to "trust" you much in the same way the Bush Administration says so, lol. Resorting to those tactics shows an automatic act of conceeding the point.

    - N
     
  13. CounslerCoffee Registered Senior Member

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    4,997
    Randicad:
    Sorry for not getting back sooner.
    The fact that it's being allowed to happen is an assault on Americas freedoms. We do not have secret prison, that's a big no-no. Next stop: death camps.
     
  14. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    If you do not have secret prisons, then where are all the top-prisoners located who's location doesn't know even the Red Cross (to which it is entitled to)?
    Not to mention documented secret CIA flights all over Europe.
     
  15. Sci-Phenomena Reality is in the Minds Eye Registered Senior Member

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    Well, I don't bash America, I bash its corrupt politicians. It takes money to campaign into office, if you don't have money then you rely on large corperations, and they always have agendas for anyone they put into office, especially when it is their money at work.

    You've taken this one a little bit too far, its the people that feeds the officials, government, the corperations, not the otherway around. I BITE the hand that pretends to feed me.

    Yes but you indicate that the government "feeds."(off of US) Yes, government is very much needed, but not big government. (which we now have, and its given us the largest number to burden humanity, the national debt)
     
  16. CounslerCoffee Registered Senior Member

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    4,997
    Exactly my point.
     
  17. Sci-Phenomena Reality is in the Minds Eye Registered Senior Member

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    Not to mention, secret CIA flights transporting loads of cocaine for thier drug slaves and drug using agents.
     
  18. Neildo Gone Registered Senior Member

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    Shhh, baby steps..

    - N
     
  19. spiritual_spy SN0W_F0X Founder Registered Senior Member

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    Some one is on :m:. Those flights were for one thing, taking terrorists overseas for interegation. not to transport cocaine..

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  20. radicand Registered Senior Member

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    No, I am saying that given the situation the local government responded in a way to keep the peace. Once the peace was restored the action taken was stopped and action to return to normal was taken.

    Read your own source. The Times sensationalized the seizures tremendously. The article verifies that the Times did so. The local police said that they took guns left in houses that were abandoned so that looters could not arm themselves. This was conveniently left out of the Times story.

    Next, the NRA claims were also proven a bit unvalidated with the story the local police told. Furthermore, the NRA claimed that the police were not returning guns back to their owners. The police reported that people were just showing up to claim "their" guns without any proof. Now you would not want someone to claim something that was not theirs would you? Especially, something as dangerous as guns!!!!!

    By the way, the NRA agreed with the police the claimant needs to provide proof.

    "It's nice of you to not even show how I was wrong, just for all of us to "trust" you much in the same way the Bush Administration says so, lol. Resorting to those tactics shows an automatic act of conceeding the point."

    I said nothing about trusting me. Thusly you speak with a forked tongue. Next, you dream about my conceding your point. Nothing could be further from the truth. I was actually hoping you would prove me wrong, but alas it was just more fear mongering.

    Conversely, your tactics of claiming victory over something you clearly did read through reflects negatively on you.

    You seem to totally miss my greater point of the necessity of action to protect the peace. Had your fear mongering articles happened without any need, then you are correct injustice has been done. But that was not the case was it?
     
  21. radicand Registered Senior Member

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    I admit I am failing to understand something.

    We have secret prisons in foreign countries to house terrorists or suspected terrorists. And, this is an assault on my freedoms how?

    Your death camp statement is entirely unwarranted.
     
  22. radicand Registered Senior Member

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    You clearly did not read the entire post. I submitted a disclaimer on the biting the hand statement.
     
  23. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    It subverts the rule of law. Why can't they be here? What are they doing there that must not follow the laws of the United States?

    As long as they don't come for you, you seem to have little interest in what the government does, that makes you a leech, not a patriot.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2006

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