What published scientific evidence proves HIV causes AIDS?

Discussion in 'Biology & Genetics' started by geistkiesel, Feb 14, 2005.

  1. bizzaroSquirrel Registered Member

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    Retrovirology. 2005 Feb 16;2(1):10 [Epub ahead of print]

    Molecular strategies to inhibit HIV-1 replication.

    Nielsen MH, Pedersen FS, Kjems J.

    The human immunodeficiency virus type 1 (HIV-1) is the primary cause of the acquired immunodeficiency syndrome (AIDS), which is a slow, progressive and degenerative disease of the human immune system. The pathogenesis of HIV-1 is complex and characterized by the interplay of both viral and host factors. An intense global research effort into understanding the individual steps of the viral replication cycle and the dynamics during an infection has inspired researchers in the development of a wide spectrum of antiviral strategies. Practically every stage in the viral life cycle and every viral gene product is a potential target. In addition, several strategies are targeting host proteins that play an essential role in the viral life cycle. This review summarizes the main genetic approaches taken in such antiviral strategies.

    PMID: 15715913 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]



    Anything other than absolute proof that AIDS is caused by HIV means that I can hold the position that it simply isn't? That's gotta be fallicious.

    I don't think you will find what you are looking for in this article, it doesn't directly relate to what you want, but I posted it because anyone can view it while it's ahead of publication. Pretty interesting.

    Here's the link to the pdf.
    http://www.retrovirology.com/content/pdf/1742-4690-2-10.pdf

    Mosley A.
    Does HIV or poverty cause AIDS? Biomedical and epidemiological perspectives.
    Theor Med Bioeth. 2004;25(5-6):399-421. Review.
    PMID: 15690942 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


    Gah, don't have access to this one. Crappy university.
     
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  3. geistkiesel Valued Senior Member

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    No, the lack of unambiguous scientific proof of an assertion does not prove the converse, hence there is no "jusitification" for asserting the converse. This is a rediculous notion. The lack of unambiguous scientific proof in the background of strong and foricibly stated assertions to the contrary does, however, cast a doubting shadow over those claiming such proof has been made.

    Further, in the background of all the intrigue and nystery of Gallo's scientific fraud, Montaignier's fraudulent paper published in "Sciene" in 1982, the massive propaganda effort by the various Departments of the NIH, contradicting and false claims of micro-photographic evidence o HIV, fraudulent double blind test regarding AZT that was nevertheless granted a "passing" mark by the FDA, personal and professional attacks on the effort of qualified and proven scientists voicung disagreement with the standard model of 'HIV/AIDS', and a host of other reasons indicates to me that not all is well in the Land of Oz.

    Thank you for the post BizzaroSquirrel, but I remind you your italicized paragraph is in abstract form and therefore conclusory. Reading the abstract I concluded the paper does not qualify as unambiguous scientific proof that I seek.

    Don't get me wrong I am not seeking proof of any causal HIV-AIDS connections in order to reach a state of peace of mind. At this point it is obvious that such requested proof is nonexistent, otherwise it would have been referenced by those powers issuing contrary claims. Surely I cannot use that offered by the mainstream generators of the HIV/AIDS scenario after inferrentially alleging many of them as systematic co-conspirators in a massive criminal activity. All participants in the distorted HIV/AIDS story are not aware of themselves as mere innocent tools of a monsterous undertaking.

    Faith and trust in the system, ah yes, what ever happened to the slogan, "In God we trust, others pay cash"?

    Geistkiesel
     
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  5. geistkiesel Valued Senior Member

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    AZT was designed and developed in the late 50, eary 60s as an anti-cancer drug. The logic went: If we can prevent the natural splitting of cancer cells we can prevent the spread of these cells. Well AZT does exactly that, it interfers with cell division, a natural born killer. The tests of AZT on terminal cancer patients was aborted midsream in the test when the pain and misery of the deaths directly related to the AZT proved more gruesome than he death from cancer (and chemotherapy). If you do not know this you are afraud.
    link to AZT story
    A chaptr in the history of AZT
    According to “The Prostitute Paradox” by Robert Root-Bernstein, female prostitutes in Africa who often have 200 to 300 sexual partners per year are assumed to have higher rates of exposure to HIV and AIDS than most heterosexuals. The women could be presumed to be a prime method of transmission of the disease. No heterosexual epidemic of AIDS has occurred, and no evidence of female prostitution transmitting HIV or AIDS into any heterosexual community or any nation on earth has occurred.
    Another reference re AZT- the source of the paragraph above.
    And yet another

    Persol your entire post was not written, nor even generated by yourself. You are standing in for some others, those with a clear agenda to distort the truth iof the AZT poison and AIDS victims.

    Geistkiesel
     
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  7. Persol I am the great and mighty Zo. Registered Senior Member

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    I'm assuming you realize that AZT isn't the only anti-viral drug used... hell... it's not an anti-viral at all. It stops part of the process of replicating nucleic acids. That's the reason it was used for cancer, and also the reason it's so dangerous. Regardless, several anti-viral drugs have developed in the last few years. Your response is just a diversionary tactic away from this fact.

    Do you have any proof at all that HIV and AIDS are not related? Up to now all you are doing is complaining....
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2005
  8. Hercules Rockefeller Beatings will continue until morale improves. Moderator

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    2,770
    This is absolutely priceless! <img src="http://www.fadzter.com/smilies/roflol.gif"> All that remains now is for you to warn us about the dangers of water fluoridation and how the fluoridation of public water supplies is a massive conspiracy that allows industry to sell its toxic waste as a health measure. <img src="http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/yellows/freak6.gif"> Oh yeah, and there’s the one about how water fluoridation is a government conspiracy to keep the populace semi-sedated and doped. (You did know that fluoride salts are used as a cheap rat poison, don’t you?) For good measure you could throw in that the MMR vax causes autism and that genetically modified crops cause cancer and the stereotype would be complete! All that remains is for you to construct a new tin foil hat and listen carefully for the black helicopters. (Your communications are being monitored by the “powers that be”.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    ) Perhaps you could do all this from your remote log cabin while you write your manifesto. <P>
     
  9. geistkiesel Valued Senior Member

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    Herc, You know and I know that my posts did not take the for you just described in your post. I gave references sufficient for you to checki t out. Are you cabale opf doing that? Can you research the Polio reference the small pox reference. Or are one of those that was a born trusting in what ever high and mighty the "powers that be" decided to tell you what the truth is?

    Is everything perfect in your world at least perfect to the extent that the US Governementn,in the guise of the NIH are an organized pack of truth tellers? Is there any action you would take a that would be recognized as a reaction to the bad news? If your government was either as incompetent as I suggestd (and others have suggested) or were consciously aware of and amplified the crimilality cosnciously would you do anything? At all?

    Now you tell me the powers that be are monitoring my posts, what is that information syuupposed to do, create mind numbing fear? I met a man who was on Omaha Beach june 6, 44. He told me that I could not comprehend the extent of dfeepley rooted fear that infectected all of his being. He told me ."I had it fugured out, I stay where I am I am a dead man. If I can make it acriss 76 80 yards, whatever of beach I had dsome cover and a chance to live," He said he got his ass in gear and headed for the promised land. He told me he never got scratch in all of that day or later and he was always scared out of his pants.
    Fear can be worked through, kit isn't the strongest of emotions.,


    AS an example of a derisive and near rude post Ivery mild by my standards, you didn't even include any useful material only posting some material that must have started crawling into some dark portal of your physical being and made you scratch?



    Expalain to me why the story on AIDS gets your ire, but if I discussed the scientific errror that led to massiveout breaks in instances of sea gull
    diarreah you would probably laugh.

    Is it what the majority belives, the mainstream, the ones crossing the i's and dotting the t's that defines the limits of your mental ability to criticize anad analyze, defines your persona? You aave no growth to accomplish? You are an adult and for adults the playing field is flat and all the mountains and the abysses obseved in our insane and mispent youth have been crossed, climbed an avoided and finally your have made it?

    I am curious, are you satisified with it all? Why do you spend time in the "science forum" to learn about scentific progress, or to use the scientific method, to explore, challenge and to make right what you perceive as wrong?
    HerculesRockerfeller, what a handle.
    Geistkiesel
     
  10. Persol I am the great and mighty Zo. Registered Senior Member

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    It's because you have nothing but your conspiracy theory. You have no proof, and that which you have shown us has been explained very easily.
     
  11. Ophiolite Valued Senior Member

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    In my self-appointed role policing interesting threads for cheap debating tricks and flawed logic, can you explain how ignorance of a fact makes one a fraud?
     
  12. guthrie paradox generator Registered Senior Member

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    Ophiolite, you must be really, really bored. I mean really bored. You would be far better off doing some overtime at work, or reading an interesting book, or just about anything else. I presume youve seen Geistkiesels debating tactics about relativity?
     
  13. geistkiesel Valued Senior Member

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    2,471

    Oh you can explain very easily why there are no published scientific journals proving the causitve link re HIV abnd AIDS? Exactly, 100%, this this is all I have, and of course the foot notes to the lies, intrigue, huge bueacratic insititutions sucking money for no ratioal purpose, supported by huge and far reaching propaganda system,chemical/drug industry in obscene relation with government regulators, faulty science, scentific fraud, incompetence and stupidity, and all I have really is the conspuracy, which is elevated above the level of mere conspiraccy theory, there is the void in published scientific proof of the HIV AIDS connection.
    There was one error that I did spot in your post. where you say "you have shown us". I haven't shown you anything persol you're just a thug name, typist really, with a name , a low level opeatve a part of an action cell, a criminal. I have shown your m asters though, haven't I?
    ^Thanx Persol,

    It is becoming much clearer now, after your input.
    Geistkiesel
     
  14. Idle Mind What the hell, man? Valued Senior Member

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    What do you say to these geistkiesel?
     
  15. geistkiesel Valued Senior Member

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    2,471
    I'll get back to you on what they say Idle Mind but not Idle Fingers doing their walking through the web site pages n' cest pas?

    Geistkiesel
     
  16. Ophiolite Valued Senior Member

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    Not really Guthrie (I have a very high boredom threshold.) I just like reminding ass-holes that they are recognised as such by anyone with half a brain. It's not especially constructive, but it keeps me off the streets.
    I'm off to look at the relativity threads now.. Thanks for the pointer.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  17. geistkiesel Valued Senior Member

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    2,471
    IdlMnd,
    I looked at the links but unfortunately was unable to get farther than the abstracts, which are, unfortunately, conclusory and do not contain the information required for proof. Each link did make the claim of finding HIV but I suspect that a close look at the full published vesion would not provide the information needed to establish, one way or the other, the truth of the matter.
    What else can I say?
    Thanx for the response.
    geistkiesel
     
  18. geistkiesel Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,471
    Opiolite -
    You are a fraud if you assert the truth of the matter, and have no inforamtion ,one way or the other as tio the truthfulness of the fact asserted, then the ignorance (I dunno the facts maam) of the matter would placethe publisher in the catagory of "fraud".

    Suppose you , or someone, predicted some condition based on fact that was not known, one way or the other, to the publisher of the material. Somene relying on the fact was injured due to the error in fact asserted as true.

    Again, the publisher of the erronneous fact has no inforamation, one way or the other yet he asserts the fact true period.[spice this up with: that the information regarding the asserted fact was easily available which would have negated the absoluteness of the truth of the fact as asserted in the publication, or would have cast doubt on the asserted truth, or proved the asserted fact as speculative].

    Are you suggesting a "freedom odf speech" theory to avoid any penalty relating the erroneous fact to the injury to the publisher?

    Geistkiesel
     
  19. geistkiesel Valued Senior Member

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    2,471
    I am not complaining certainly not to you, I am merely stating the fact that no published scientific documents prove the HIV and AIDS causal connection.

    geistkiesel
     
  20. Yamayama Registered Senior Member

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    109
    What I have read about the HIV-AIDS hypothesis has led me to delevop doubts about it as well. Frankly, I'm not knowledgeable enough on the topic to have developed a particularly strong opinion.

    Having said that, as long as those discussing the issue don't encourage anyone to - e.g. casually abandon the condoms (after all, there are other STDs even IF the HIV/AIDS assertion is a hoax), I see little or no justification for the hindering of the discussion or debate about the issue. After all, if the HIV-AIDS hypothesis is correct, what do it's proponents have to fear? I personally have no agenda to fulfill - I'm only interested in the truth.

    Personally, I think it might be worth keeping an eye on reports from sites such as http://www.aliveandwell.org/. It's founder tested HIV-positive in 1992, and is apparently still not showing signs of AIDS. Seeing how her case progresses over the years might be worthwhile. Then again, if she is still doing well in a few years, she might just be one of those patients in whom the virus allegedly remains 'latent' (is that an appropriate term?) for longer periods than in others.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2005
  21. DeeCee Valued Senior Member

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    1,793
    Hey geistkiesel

    Perhaps your right!
    Just to be sure why not fuck a HIV +ve individual, stay off the retrovirals and wait a few years.
    Should tell you all you need to know.

    Do it for science!
    Dee Cee
     
  22. geistkiesel Valued Senior Member

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    2,471
    Why donm't you do it fopr sciemce. Where I come from if you find a prblem fix it.

    This thread is asking for published scienific documentation that HIV causes AIDS.
    Is this so difficult for you to understand? If it is too difficult to undersand then you have been speaking from a position if unconditional and abject ignorance,. If this be the case you can go fuck yourself- duhyasea DC?

    Do you want to exchange fuck posts or do you want to point to some published scientic material that proves HIV is caually significant in the etiology of AIDS. Preferable to this wuld be the Director of the NIH or the FDA publicize the published scientific documentation proving the causal relation of HIV and AIDS. Does this seem an unreasonable request? I mean to ask these directors to indicate the scientific rationale for the generation of a massive governmental AIDS policy based on the assumption that HIV exists and is the causal, the putative pathogenic agent in the etiology of AIDS is fair is it not?

    Geistkiesel

    Geistkiesel
    Geistkiesel
     
  23. Ophiolite Valued Senior Member

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    Just to give us a feel for what constitutes unambiguous scientific proof could you tell me if the following are proven or not
    • The Big Bang
    • Global Warming
    • Plate tectonics
    • Manned lunar landings
    • abiogenic oil reservoir replacement
    :
     

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