Because of Trumps administration and the NK fiasco the Chinese military industrial complex has fired up. According to reports. Given Chinese capacity their military might will be very competitive with in a very short while. (2 billion ultra proud Chinese nationalists are not to be underestimated)
Negotiating what? A peace treaty, removing our troops from South Korea? Open trade? North Korea unlike Iran or any other country has a problem of legitimacy: It can't be stable so long as the south exists, it must proclaim constant oppression by an antagonist in order to scapegoat why it is a shit hole compared to the south, it must sabre rattle and demand attention in order to proclaim not just externally but internally how powerful and strong they are to the world and to its own people. No concession will satiate it for long, an excuse for closing open trade will happen as soon as the northern people start getting too many hints that they are slaves. Yes we could make concessions, remove our troops, sign a peace treaty, but the south would demand protection somehow, we could sell them nukes, even de-cored nukes, for they have the means to produce plutonium in quantity. Let the south proclaim as the north does how strong they are and leave, and hope MAD works. In short negotiating with North Korea would tell the world that nuclear proliferation is the proven means to protection and legitimacy. It will mean and end to nuclear non-proliferation policy, and the only hope will be to sit back and hope MAD works, that a nuclear war between Iran and Saudis, or North and South Korean, or Ukraine and Russia, etc, will be limited.
China is clearly loosing patients: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-40838582 If is was President Xi knowing trump is a impulsive pig boar devoid of principles I too would be telling North Korea the shut the fuck up if they know what is good for them!
MAD has always been the only thing that has worked so far... All else is window dressing... It is only when NK realizes fully that any nuclear aggression will lead to it's total and complete destruction that there is any hope of a negotiated peaceful outcome. At the moment NK is like a person standing on the edge of a very high building roof top deluded into believing he can fly, threatening to jump if it doesn't get what it wants. Does it realize that it can never get what it wants using this strategy? This is why the need for negotiation. To get NK off the damn roof and back on the ground. "Hey Kimmy, are you on the roof again?" "Yes mom" "Well..... come on down, your dinner is getting cold" "Awwww.. mom... do I have to?" "Yes dear, you're not allowed to eat on the roof" ( sanctions) "Says who?!" "The one who cooks your dinner. That's who!"
I don't think you understand what North Korea wants. North Korea does not actually want a nuclear war, they just want to black mail the world into giving them stuff, they want to be able to attack South Korea without the USA getting involve, and just the threat of nuking the USA is good enough. Change your scenario, image a psycho who has got a gun, he says let me rape this girl or else he will shoot you. Now you have a gun on him, but he will likely get off a shot or two before you kill him, so you can either take a few bullets or let him rape the girl.
Yep you got it! He's a psycho holding a gun... a bloody big gun that may end up costing millions of lives and not just a few stray bullets. Given the amount of gross distortion evident due to all the paranoid speculation going on NK is trying to do a lot of things. But... there are a few things that indicate the reality that is far different to the mass media bs we are seeing daily. example: Why did NK return the very sick prisoner to the USA? They had no reasons to do anything... Why was there no autopsy performed to determine the cause of the prisoners ultimate death? ( were the NK actually telling the truth?) Why hasn't the USA beat up the story and made NK the horrible monster it wants the world to know? Why hasn't NK threatened verbally SK with nuking and only the USA? (world press maybe silent?) Why hasn't NK nuked SK as it has had the capacity for some time.... The gun is aimed at the USA main land, it appears to be a protest against what it believes is USA oppression. Does NK seriously fear USA invasion? (USA Imperialism?) Why? Getting him off the roof is not going to be easy but what else can we do? Negotiate in circles for ever... ( good strategy if it can be maintained... inexpensive too I might add) Negotiate to get him off the roof and keep going round in circles until he and the USA actually see the world in more realistic terms. Surgical strikes and take out nuke capacity with inherent risks. ( Chinese, Russian reactions?) Obliterate the entire nation and invade. ( Chinese, Russian reaction most likely severe) or Ignore his threats and do nothing.. ( actually probably the best solution) until he actually commits the crime...( reality of threat revealed)
Congress voted it, overwhelming majority - a couple of dissenters, such as Bernie Sanders, but clearly the will of the people expressed. As far as NK - when it is not necessary to do anything, it is often necessary to do nothing. How about we do nothing for a while?
I Agree... maintain seemingly "futile" negotiations but essentially maintain the position of "We, the world, do not have to trade with you if you are going to be like that!"
Scenario: NK test fires another unarmed missile. It's a dud. BUT it crashes into an office block in Tokyo and kills a few goldfish in an office aquarium. A mistake. An accident. The world knows it. What happens then? NK: "Oopsie! Ahh sorry guys our mistake!...shit happens!"
My opinion on this is from reading these books: "The Cleanest Race" by by B. R. Myers "The Tears of My soul" by Kim Hyun Hee "The aquariums of Pyongyang" by Kang Chol-Hwan "Under the loving car of the fatherly leader" by Bradley K Martin "Nothing to Envy" by by Barbara Demick" I recommend reading these books to better understand north korea from the people that survived that hell hole and from experts study them for decades. Because they did not want him dying on their soil, and because he was no longer useful as a political pawn. No there were not, no autopsy is needed to know it was not botulism. https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2017/06/15/doctors-n2341852 What are you talking about? I remember the story well it was all over the news, then the news returned to other things like trumps tweets. US goverment does not control the news, the market does and the market is attracted to many shiny things at a very transient and rapid rate. I thinking turning Seoul into a sea of flames is good enough, North Korea wants South Korea, you don't shot what you want to fuck, unless your necrophiliac. Again North Korea WANTS South Korea, North Korea does not want any part of the USA, according the north korea propaganda both external and internal the south will be reunified under the glorious leaders rule, nuked the south would defeat the propose. Yes US oppression preventing it from taking over the south, it is those evil hooked nosed americans, that is all preventing unification, the south wants to badly to unify under the glorious leaders rule, don't question it, or it is off to the death camps for you. Probably, but they the elites of North Korea also fear their population, even each other, everything is a threat to their power, uncles, brothers, you name it. They must keep sabre rattling, peace means the people asking about economic progress and political improvements.[/quote][/QUOTE]
Admittedly my knowledge of NK is very limited and far from accurate. ( but I learn quick) or was it because he was a political pawn? "If he dies in your care we shall retaliate!" "Sever brain injury most likely brought on by oxygen starvation" ( aka suffocation) Why would they propose botulism? When Oxygen deprivation appears obvious...? Thanks for the link... If the USA government felt it could gain mileage from promoting the monster who suffocated the young man under torture they would have....According to the press here this was not the case... It was in fact played down... which I find puzzling... South Korea, generally speaking IS about as USA as you can get.... as is Japan... The possibility of NK taking control of a functioning SK is extremely remote under any circumstances. So why haven't they just attempted to wipe them out. when they have the nuclear means...? Maybe there are limitations to their insanity? see above Unification with out annihilation of SK is a totally insane proposition. There is no doubt that the NK regime is horrendous. Just thinking about what they do to their liabilities such as disabled and elderly. Extermination, promoted suicide, death camps is enough for any humane society to wish to force change in NK. Little wonder they fear invasion. They know what they are doing and they know that it is bad shit... Intelligence on NK would be incredibly thorough. I would imagine that the USA knows most of the atrocities the NK is committing on a daily basis. Yet they must not be bad enough to warrant military action ( genocide etc) So I question why the world especially China is not acting if the intel. from NK was so severe.
There are other American hostages held by North Korea, a dead one would look bad on North Korea, so they sent him back. Again the USA goverment does not control the press. Again you can't kill what you lust for. It is rather a stretch for them to think they can get south korea to bow down to them, but they assume once they have an army big enough and the USA won't intervene, then they can invade South Korea with conventional weapons or at least force one conciliation after another until the people of South Korea longing for northern rule vote in a goverment that will hand to the glorious leader full control. Do they believe this or is this merely propaganda they tell their citizens in order to proclaim only after unification will their hardship be rewarded... why not both? Tell a lie enough times and you yourself will believe it. Plenty of country commit atrocities and no one cares, what matters is that most of the citizens believe these atrocities are righteous, or that the citizens are too placated to care, or that the citizens are too afraid to do anything, or a combination of all three. North Korea can only placate a small fraction of their population, so they rely on much brainwashing and keeping in a state of immense fear of daring to even hint at speaking out against the goverment. Is your argument really that the humanitarian crisis of North Korea is so server that china would want to do something, China? are you serious?
If the situation was severe enough I think that they would.... Can I surmise that you do not feel that NK is any more monstrous than other totalitarian regimes in the world? That it is more or less business as usual from a humanitarian POV? From what I have witnessed via news and documentaries including secret published video footage etc...you are right when you say that the population lives under extreme fear and oppression. There appears no doubt that this is the case. It makes you wonder how this is possible, though, when you consider human nature is always to fight for freedom from oppression. There appears no rebellion or insurrection going on and maybe it is just well hidden as it needs to be. Either way it means that tension with in it's borders (population) must be extreme and a virtual tinderbox waiting to explode. I would imagine that a lot of it is about giving the population reason for their suffering and offer patriotism and worship as a way to relieve it. ( with out any real intention to pursue the unification dream) Unification could be like a religious destination that is used to manipulate the population with....
I think you could consider the prisoners being held by NK as a lost cause but I guess there is always hope... You have got to remember that this is a country that is threatening to nuke the USA. Do you honestly think any USA citizen in the NK would believe they are not in fear of their lives?
