What we shold do with USA?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Chris63, Apr 10, 2004.

  1. Chris63 Registered Senior Member

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    67
    Hello,

    Many of us who live outside the US, counting that country as the real thread to world safety, stability, democracy ....or our future. The present public opinion probing, show that the U.S. poses a far greater threat to the world than terrorism and armed conflicts. Tell me what the rest of world can do with USA? What the solution would be effective to temper this crazy regime? Economical sanctions? UN resolution

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    , or widespread refusal to buy their (and their suporters - I'm Polish) goods. Tell me is there any solution?

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    Hey Chineese - say a word.

    Chris
     
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  3. Undecided Banned Banned

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    Let the US keep on doing what it is doing, we just have to sit back relax and enjoy the show.
     
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  5. How is the U.S. a threat
     
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  7. Whirlwind Banned Banned

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    Whirlwind responds...

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    If you "get the drift," after reading the industrial quantities of sarcasm from the Madhatters of Sciforum, Chris.... you will find:

    Pax Americana (currently in the hands of the NeoCon trotskyite Jews) continues to expand like the HIV virus in Africa, for you see, we hopelessly (obese and) arrogant American's see the rest of the world as "The Problem!"

    Problem: Colombian drugs - Oh, but we are the biggest consumers of drugs!

    Problem: Palestinain terrorism - Oh, but we continue to arm the LIKUDNIK hyena's and their IDF thugs and murderers with the most sophisticated weaponry in the US armory and "look the other way" as they murder, maim, wound and displace the Palestinian people off of their land and violate (daily) the 1949 Geneva Convention protocols regarding occupation forces responsibilites to the occupied people.

    Problem: Europe won't join us as we attack a hapless Arab nation that (supposedly) has WMD's on its launching pads ready to attack America in 45 minutes (Don Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney's lies) - and the lies continue to be exposed, as we speak.

    Problem: Bush, "They hate us because we're free!" - You lying sonofab!tch!

    Problem: Abrogated Kyoto Treaty, abrogated ICC treaty, abrogated ABM treaty, creating weaponized bacteriological weapons in violation of current UN treaties as we speak, developing tactical "bunker buster" nukes in violation of the current UN non-proliferation Treaty, looking the other way - Re: Israel's nukes, while demanding that the Iranians shut down their Nuke development program, demanding that the EU help and support the US with its financing of Israeli STATE SPONSORED TERRORISM activites - and the list goes on, and on, and on!

    Your country - Poland, will be pulling its coalition troops out of Iraq this June and they are 'disturbed" by the Bush administrations lies and deciet also.

    You asked - and I answered you!

    Whirlwind.... *

    *To know him - is to love 'em!

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    Last edited: Apr 27, 2004
  8. DeeCee Valued Senior Member

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    1,793
    What we shold do with USA?
    Wait for them to finally get round to civil war?
    No?
    OK hit 'em with sanctions.
    That should do the trick.
    Let them back into the gang when they learn to behave themselves and get some humility.

    Embargo on!
    Dee Cee
     
  9. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    12,061
    If and when OPEC switches to the Euro, a world economic war against the USA will be on.
     
  10. RonVolk Registered Senior Member

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    LOL Anti-US threads always give me the giggles.
    "Hey Chineese - say a word." said Chris63. So your so scared of the U.S. that you'll suck up to a Communist regime? GOOD MOVE! LOL
    OK, I've said my piece, flame me and go back to your U.S. Hating.
     
  11. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    24,690
    What exactly is Europe doing so well that we should emulate it?

    140 years after our own Civil War, Europe is finally taking its first baby steps towards being one nation instead of a collection of constantly squabbling and often-warring mini-states. Except that they have a long way to go toward understanding the concept of unfettered interstate commerce. Polish citizens have to apply for a work permit before they can apply for a job in France.

    Sixty years after the Holocaust, anti-Semitism is still rampant. Not that we've totally abolished it over here, but many Jews who are not happy in Israel settle here and find it tolerable. How many go to France or Slovakia? (You Euros who speak of our country being "run by Jews" are so ignorant that it's downright amusing. A Jew has to have a pretty thick skin to live anywhere in the U.S. except Los Angeles or New York. The "Jews" you keep pointing out hysterically are assimilated, secularized and often married to Christians. Groucho Marx was "Jewish." Pretty scary, sinister guy, wasn't he? So is Roseanne Barr.)

    You treat your Muslims far worse than we do. Outlawing head scarves, beating them up, keeping them in ghettos, restricting them to menial labor. Ours are computer programmers, actuaries, university professors, and engineers. They live among us, send their children to the same schools (in head scarves), and shop in the same markets so we all get to know each other. Christian and Jewish Americans are joining Sufi groups and learning a new path to love and peace.

    All the U.S. has to do to regain its former position of respect is try some of the good old-fashioned isolationism that worked so well for us UNTIL WE HAD TO START SENDING OUR TROOPS TO EUROPE EVERY FEW DECADES TO HELP YOU BLOODTHIRSTY MORONS SETTLE YOUR INCESSANT WARS AMONG YOURSELVES!

    Pull our armies out of the Mideast. Stop arming Israel and Saudi Arabia and Kazakhstan and every Muslim dictator who cozies up to us. Stop pretending that we know how to resolve ethnic and religious hatreds that were already ancient before our country even existed.

    That should go a long way toward solving the problem.

    Oh yeah, and pull the plug on Microsoft. I don't relish the thought of a worldwide "information infrastructure" based on Windows any more than you do. If the "boycott" you're talking about is aimed at Microsoft, I'll be happy to participate.
     
  12. Undecided Banned Banned

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    I agree with Fraggle on how the US should try to protect herself from the inevitable cannibalization that most empires go through. The US should choose its allies very selectively and strategically, Israel, and Uzbekistan are not helping the US in any verifiable way. France, and Germany, the UK, Canada, all those traditional allies should be kept in the fold as much as possible. Alienating these countries and their populations is a very risky venture for the US. If the US really wants to survive and thrive, the most important thing of all is to make the US economy into a green economy. Stop importing oil, and thus decreasing the amount of foreign dependence by leaps and bounds, also weakling the Islamic world by leaps and bounds as well. Let's face facts; the US economy is dictated by three things, cycles, presidents, and OPEC. The normal American has to get away from the unnecessarily large Hummer’s, and come to grips that reality has struck. With countries like China and India sucking much more oil, the price will be high for a very long time indeed. What do I mean by Green economy? Well at first create very fuel efficient cars, so the US only depends on close allies for oil like Canada, Mexico, and Venezuela. Then finally transition to a hydrogen based economy when it becomes economically viable. That is the only real way for the US to get isolationist and have an economy not hindered by other states.
     
  13. Rappaccini Redoubtable Registered Senior Member

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  14. otheadp Banned Banned

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    when the US starts to act ruthless, that's when America Bashing will stop

    the fact that the bashing is going on and is so rampant, proves that the US is not so bad

    look at all the atrocities around the world. who gets criticized most? who gets proded and poked and analyzed the most? the most democratic and humane places.

    who does not get critisized?
    Kim, Saddam, house of Saud, China, Syria, the Ayatollah, Castro, etc.

    why? because they are ruthless
     
  15. Undecided Banned Banned

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    why? because they are ruthless

    But all those states you mentioned are on the verge of collapse or are living in a facade. The US can easily create the ruthless American image around the world, but it won't work. It never has, and it never will work. Ppl will be quiet and accept it for a while, but the cracks will show and the whole system comes crashing down. The USSR for instance was ruthless in E.Europe, and look what happened. Ruthlessness cannot work because the ppl don't will it to. American power has always rested on her being a “generous, and forgiving state”. The US shouldn’t force it’s will on others, Iraq proves John Wayne incorrect, and so does Afghanistan. We are talking about a US policy that simply cannot sustain itself, and a policy that is bound to inevitable failure.
     
  16. otheadp Banned Banned

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    5,853
    Israel, and Uzbekistan are not helping the US in any verifiable way
    i don't know about Uzbekistan, but here's what Israel has done for the US and the world: link, and link
    so far it's been pretty good. who knows what else the future holds

    Stop importing oil, and thus decreasing the amount of foreign dependence by leaps and bounds, also weakling the Islamic world by leaps and bounds as well.
    foreign dependence... will not be decreased. US economy is integrated with other countries through other sectors. say thankyou to globalization.
    weakening the Islamic world... it would actually do the opposite.
    well first of all, you probably meant 'islamist'. we need to strengthen the Islamic world, and weaken the islamist world.
    by putting trade sanctions on the Islamic world (that's what it is, when you stop buying billions and billions dollars worth of oil), they get poorer, and the islamists gain power.

    the most important thing of all is to make the US economy into a green economy
    air powered cars, and fuel-cell technology, among others, are not far away. there are certain things that need to be taken care of before these new technologies are adopted. from a technical point, they're almost [if not already] ready to go

    That is the only real way for the US to get isolationist and have an economy not hindered by other states
    what would be best is if all the world's economies will be integrated, not isolated (Juche)
    one of the reasons for the creation of the EU was to integrate Germany's economy after WWII to prevent it from further aggression (and, of course, to provide Germany a big market for its cars. selling cars to people instead of bombing them is more profitable)

    now, before we go on and become green, before we put these enormous sanction-like moves on the middle east, we have to make sure there is something else going for them. otherwise we would really be "pigs"
    that is awfully hard when these countries are run by fanatics who refuse to even incorporate usury (interest) into their banking system... let alone introduce free-markets and western-style economy
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2004
  17. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    24,690
    Absolutely! Sorry I didn't mention that myself. Most Americans today have jobs that they could do perfectly well from their homes with nothing more than a workstation, a telephone, and a webcam. That would cut our consumption of petroleum down to a trickle, reduce pollution and accidents, eliminate a major source of stress in our lives, and allow families to spend more time together.

    There are two reasons that we are all forced to spend as much as a fourth of our waking hours driving back and forth across the landscape.

    One is that the people who manage us don't really know how to manage. They just count the number of minutes that they see us at our desks rather than measuring the quantity and quality of what we produce. We can probably solve that problem when you younger folks who are accustomed to doing everything virtually finally take over. (He said naively. I waited thirty years to finally be able to put a draft-dodgin', free-lovin', pot-smokin', sax-playin', color-blind Baby Boomer in the White House. Now he's gone and it's like it never happened.)

    The second is that the auto industry and the petroleum industry have an incredible amount of influence over how this country is run. They want us to spend huge amounts of money on cars and on the petroleum that runs them. Wasn't it masterful the way they wooed half the population out of their safe, easily-parked, fuel-efficient compact cars and convinced them to drive around in wobbly, top-heavy two-ton trucks that don't have to satisfy the government standards for safety and fuel economy? There is no easy way to solve this problem. Corporations are the new aristocracy. They can do whatever they want and they answer to no one.
     
  18. otheadp Banned Banned

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    5,853
    all those states you mentioned are on the verge of collapse or are living in a facade
    not really. they've been around for a long time and don't seem like they're going anywhere

    The USSR for instance was ruthless in E.Europe, and look what happened.
    what happened? when USSR was around, there were no Chechnya bombings, there was no serious resistance by any of the republics or E.European countries...
    only once the US caused it to collapse , only then did the E.European countries became free of the soviet grip

    Iraq proves John Wayne incorrect
    i'd argue that it proves it exactly correct.
    if they don't hesitate to bomb those mosques, or to not offer humanitarian gestures such as a ceasefire to allow the insurgents to bury their dead or to unilaterally stop fighting to let the insurgents celebrate their holidays...
    they could also disregard all the Geneva conventions and give the finger to Kofi Annan

    this was basically what Saddam was doing. al-Sadr didn't even squack back then.

    after insurgents are so scared shitless and abandon their plots, only then can US install a just and democratic government, like what happened in Japan and Germany after they were severely, disproportionally, punished for their aggression.
     
  19. Chris63 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    67
    Hey folks,

    I didn't say that america is a danger to itselves but to other countries. Maybe you have your own heaven in your country (US), but I would like to build my own heaven in my land according to my own measures, not according to your one. I'm sure that Iraqis think the same. I asked for Chineese word, becouse I remember the world 20 years ago - when two powers balanced each other. In those times it wasn't so easy for Russia or US to dictate their rules to the countries becouse of the big opponent watching on it's hand and I see now that China can be the only power which will stop US in the future. Let's see. You may argue: but danger of nuclear war or lack of civil right in communism part of world which was present that time. I ask you to look around, but from poor countries perspective. During the last 20 years their situation got worse badly (situation - I mean the ability to live in happiness, not only the financial income). Why? - ask yourselve.
    Fraggle rocker - when I read your posts I jump in the past to the previous communism time in Poland - the same arguments they used to promote their politics.
    Finally I think the Undecided has a right with advice to sit in the armchair and watch the show. Something much more important is boiling under cover. This bad things which are happening in Iraq now, are for turn out our attention only or it is a small streem of underground river which will appear soon. Such unprecended grow of sources as taken place recently and turmoil in the politics sugessting that much more "exciting" things will happened.

    Chris
     
  20. If Iraq and Afghanistan were not so cordial to terrorist they would still have dictators in charge. The leadership of these countries decided that they liked to help those who hate the United States. I do not care if we are looking for ice cubes in the desert. Terrorist believe that they have nothing to lose. To marginalize them we have to give them something to lose. If you attack the U.S. over seas we will respond one way. If you attack the United States on our own turf we are unable to retreat or withdraw. As we have always done we will respond to such a challenge in an extremely forceful manner to insure that the incident is not repeated. The terrorist saw the image that we project. They forgot that the U.S. is made of people who were kicked out of every civilized country. We broke every treaty with the Indians that we ever made and wiped them out. We kidnapped thousands of people to use as cheap labor and we are the only nation to ever use atomic weapons. We were not always nice fat and lazy. Some of us are still violent and cruel and aggressive. We have shown extraordinary restraint in our response and I think that people should ask themselves how they would want their countries to respond if their loved ones were killed by terrorist.
     
  21. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    12,061
    "I think that people should ask themselves how they would want their countries to respond if their loved ones were killed by terrorist"
    I, for one, would want for my country to go specifically, surgically, and unfalteringly after terrorists, not states, not selectively within only antagonistic states, and never using armies. If a superpower were to chase any other international criminals around the globe with armies, the result would also and inevitably be counterproductive wars. Understandable anger and frustration over terrorism must not be allowed to degenerate into dysfunctional lashing out.
     
  22. Undecided Banned Banned

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    i don't know about Uzbekistan, but here's what Israel has done for the US and the world: link, and link
    so far it's been pretty good. who knows what else the future holds


    I don't see much to tell you the truth oth, the only thing that holds any form of relevance is the liberal democracy bit, but even that is a lie. Turkey is a liberal democracy as well, she is Islamic, and doesn't incite hatred from the entire Islamic world. Now if you consider Whitney Houston Celebrates Israel's Diversity to be a supporting the US, then I don't know what to say. Israel is a liability for the US rather then an asset. If you read the manifestos of the Islamic groups they contain US support for Israel as being one of the factors that make the US a target. 9/11 was partially done because of US support for Israel; I wouldn't say that's what the US was counting on. Most of the Islamic world believes that Israel and the US are working together against them, and that the US is supporting the outlaw Israel gov't *which she is*:

    In the predominantly Muslim nations surveyed, people side with the Palestinians over Israel by lop-sided margins. In Pakistan, Jordan and Morocco, virtually no one sides with Israel. Opinion in Turkey is somewhat less uniform, though people sympathize with the Palestinians by about ten-to-one (63%-6%); 16% of Turks say they sympathize with neither side in the conflict.

    Whether you like it or not, perception is everything. In the relevant area (the Islamic world) as long as the US supports Israel, US is to blame for propping up the proxy.

    foreign dependence... will not be decreased. US economy is integrated with other countries through other sectors.

    By foreign dependence, I obviously meant by energy needs potty, you know that.

    weakening the Islamic world... it would actually do the opposite.
    well first of all, you probably meant 'islamist'. we need to strengthen the Islamic world, and weaken the islamist world.


    By the looks of it much of the "Islamic" world is becoming "Islamist". The moderates are loosing out to the poor, disenfranchised and easily manipulated masses.

    what would be best is if all the world's economies will be integrated, not isolated (Juche)

    I didn't say Juche potty, don't twist my words. You know I was talking about oil.

    we have to make sure there is something else going for them. otherwise we would really be "pigs" that is awfully hard when these countries are run by fanatics who refuse to even incorporate usury (interest) into their banking system... let alone introduce free-markets and western-style economy

    Let them do it, if we impose it. It will blow up in our faces.
     
  23. Undecided Banned Banned

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    not really. they've been around for a long time and don't seem like they're going anywhere

    All those states were propped up by the fmr. Soviet bloc or a shaky US:

    Kim, Saddam, house of Saud, China, Syria, the Ayatollah, Castro, etc.

    Only China is the one who is independent of foreign influence. Cuba, and Iran are going to go through revolutions soon enough, Saddam is gone, Syria is questionable hopefully Assad will reform internally, Saudi is on the hit list for the PNAC gang, and Kim is propped up by China. All these states are on shaky ground, ruling by an Iron fist has not worked, if your state has to be propped up something is wrong.

    what happened? when USSR was around, there were no Chechnya bombings, there was no serious resistance by any of the republics or E.European countries...

    What do you call 1956 Hungarian uprising? The 1967 Czech revolution, Solidarity movement in Poland, and the 1989 Berlin Wall? There was active resistance in the east against the repressive Brezhnev doctrine.

    only once the US caused it to collapse , only then did the E.European countries became free of the soviet grip

    The US did not cause the USSR to collapse, what caused it to collapse was its own inefficiency. The US helped it out, but it was an internal collapse.

    this was basically what Saddam was doing. al-Sadr didn't even squack back then.

    Yet we have the 1991 uprising against Saddam that almost succeeded.

    after insurgents are so scared shitless and abandon their plots, only then can US install a just and democratic government, like what happened in Japan and Germany after they were severely, disproportionally, punished for their aggression.

    This is not going to happen; the comparison is not even accurate. These ppl are being pushed by Islam, a force stronger then our ideals. If they believe that they are going to heaven, or something of that nature. No democracy or enlightenment ideals are going to change their minds. They are not western, Germans and Japanese were westernized.
     

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