# What will we replace religion with?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Magical Realist, Feb 19, 2014.

1. ### Arne Saknussemmtrying to figure it all outValued Senior Member

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God is a person, not a concept. And one of his principle commandments is just that - love one another! Understanding and respecting humankind. The problem is that even among many who call themselves Christians there is precious little of this love.

3. ### river

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But god himself doesn't respect Humanity unless we do as he says

5. ### spidergoatLiddle' Dick TaterValued Senior Member

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We wouldn't have survived 200K years without a basic minimum of social cohesion. It's something we share with all social primates. You can talk about charity and mercy, but under the banner of Christianity, many new and wondrous torture devices were developed, many people burned alive, to say nothing of all the wars fought and natives subjected as "heathens". You are the one with overly simplistic notions about faith.

7. ### spidergoatLiddle' Dick TaterValued Senior Member

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Can one love on command? How is that accomplished? If even Christians can't do it, then what's the point?

8. ### Arne Saknussemmtrying to figure it all outValued Senior Member

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Why 200,000 years? Isn't it more like four million? Sure, we have had social cohesion in the past. I am just saying in our modern world, wherein, as Margaret Thatcher once said, there is no community, only people behind their locked doors, a sense of community, or cohesion, is sadly a thing of the past, except in churches, by which I mean churches helping the less fortunate. as for the whole Spanish Inquisition thing, that's been done to death, and you really ought to know better by now. Please read up on all the arguments back and forth, and then maybe we can talk.

9. ### river

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Of course it would be a place of social/community support

It would be place where Humanity would get exactly this , support

10. ### Aqueous Idflat Earth skepticValued Senior Member

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God can't be a person, by definition. And God can't be a person because God is an invention. Any "concept of God" must refer to the re-invented God, which somehow rationalizes itself by insisting that an invented God can't be real. The other part, the Personal God (loving, understanding etc) is the third level of invention, not only anthropomorphic, but warm-fuzzy at that, rationalizing itself by insisting that the invented God can't be real and the impersonal God can't be real, all while skewering his little monsters and roasting them over a fire. Whatever you do people, don't look at the man behind the curtain. Ignore the man behind the curtain!

They call themselves Christians merely because they believe the legend of Jesus Christ is a historical narrative. The same Jesus Christ--who, as I recall, repeatedly admonished "real Christians" not to pass judgment on others. That makes this at best a case of the pot calling the kettle black, don't you think? Either that or just another thing to drive you crazy, set in motion by the warm-fuzzy God who really is looking out for your best interests.

If I could find one thread of sense in any of it I would at least send them some money. They really need to hire a good PR firm. At least some college grads who passed the logic unit in Geometry. Anything but what we've got now. This is a freaking madhouse of absurdity and propaganda, cloaking the true nature of human suffering, and sort of glibly prancing around as a teddy bear while Rome burns.

That's why all my investment goes to atheism. It's the only thing going that won't put up with any of the bullshit.

11. ### cluelusshusbund+ Public Dilemma +Valued Senior Member

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I thank Einsteins statement is spot on... an i thank spiritual needs will decrease as humans evolve to be less "human"... havin less need for superstition... an Einsteins statement will hold true until a time when entities can know ultimate answrs... then zero need for religion/unfounded beleifs.!!!

12. ### wynn˙Valued Senior Member

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That's how much power LG had over you? Wow.

13. ### wellwisherBannedBanned

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The very nature of this topic shows the intolerance that many without religion, default to. If atheism was to get rid of religion, this will not get rid of their intolerance. They will find a a new scape goat to persecute. The Soviet Union persecuted religion and once gone, was still not happy in its atheist utopia. One purpose of religion was to teach tolerance thereby allowing social interactions over wider and wider range of humanity. Christianity, for example, can found in hundreds of cultures, each allowed to retain secular traditions.

The atheist just can't live and let live, as taught by Christ and practiced by many religions. They feel the unconscious compulsion to bully. They are not a happy group due to the repression they require of each member of the cult. This topic also seems to indicate that atheists have not found what they are looking for, and are still looking for an alternative. Notice nobody says atheism is the final answer which we already have. The topic is alternative to religion, but what this really means how can they return toward religion as a template for atheism?

Another thing I noticed about atheist is connected to a reference illusion game they use. To explain how reference illusion works, picture two boys standing side-by-side. We are measuring their height to see who is taller. If one boy wanted to be seen as taller, he can grow or stand straight and tall. Or if can't grow or stand tall, he can simply dig a hole for the other boy to stand in, so he can create an illusion he has risen above. The atheist approach is to not become a taller through works and positive social action, so people see them as the source of inspiration, like in religion. Rather it uses an illusion created by digging a hole for religion, so atheism can appear to have risen while not changing anything.

One will not see atheism say, we have the best way based on objective standards. If we complete fairly, and even help our backward religious brothers, people will come because the taller will be seen. Rather, it is religion who says love your enemy even if he has to pretend.

14. ### Arne Saknussemmtrying to figure it all outValued Senior Member

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Well done, friend wellwisher, well done. :worship:
I'm already weary of talking to these godless trolls because it is clear they don't want any answers, they just wish to taunt. 'Pearls before swine,' as the greatest man of all once said.

15. ### CrisIn search of ImmortalityValued Senior Member

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Haha - when every thread was infected by the same virus it meant the same ending each time. Just very tiresome. My only weapon was reason and he was immune. I found far better and more productive uses for my time elsewhere.

16. ### CrisIn search of ImmortalityValued Senior Member

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There remains no evidence of actual existence of gods or even the possibility that they might exist and until then it is not reasonable to assume they are anything other than human constructed concepts and fantasy products of human imagination.

Once you realize your god is just an imaginary figment then we can more appropriately discus the other useful human created and beneficial observations of treating others with respect, dignity, tolerance, and love.

17. ### wynn˙Valued Senior Member

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IOW, he prevailed.

18. ### CrisIn search of ImmortalityValued Senior Member

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Wellwisher,

Your straw man construct of an atheist isn't very useful. You can argue all you wish against the fiction you have described, but in reality there is no such group. Atheists will be among the most tolerant and loving to the most hateful, murderous, and intolerant. Any attempt to group them together in total has no meaning. All you have done is create a fantasy enemy so you can vent seemingly superior religious oriented dogma.

In essence you are arguing with yourself. The danger is if you believe your strawman is real and then you will enter that downward and typical spiral of religious delusion.

19. ### spidergoatLiddle' Dick TaterValued Senior Member

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I'm sure our innate morality does extend back that far, but 200K is the accepted time frame for modern humans. Anyway, you think far too much of your own propaganda, you need to get out more and see what atheist groups are doing:

Atheist Charity Giving Has Gone Up Greatly In Recent Years

And from the Foundation Beyond Belief, which raised almost 1.5 million dollars for such causes as providing clean drinking water in Ecuador.
http://foundationbeyondbelief.org/

Austin Atheists Helping the Homeless

Reddit atheists recently raised $200,000 for Doctors Without Borders. In November, Kiva, a micro-financing organization, reported an atheist group raised the highest amount,$271,150.

No, churches don't get to claim the moral high ground any more. Everything a church can do, atheist groups can do, without the poison of faith.

20. ### CrisIn search of ImmortalityValued Senior Member

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I remained unaffected by the virus. Moving to a virus free area until the virus died seems reasonable. Prevailed? I am here and he is not. How would you define prevailed?

21. ### wynn˙Valued Senior Member

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Because this forum really is the ultimate place of relevance ...

You reason that because of him, you left a place (ie. Sciforums) that you like. In that sense, he prevailed.

22. ### (Q)Encephaloid MartiniValued Senior Member

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Like a bowling league? Is that the best you could come up with for justifying a purpose for religion?

There is no secular alternative to people getting together to re-affirm their childhood indoctrination of their invisible super friends, a place they can divide themselves from others and vilify those who don't have the same invisible super friends, who don't share in the same intolerance, bigotry and delusion.

23. ### Arne Saknussemmtrying to figure it all outValued Senior Member

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Well Cris, I'm with you on that Blight Garganchic character. I was away a year and more, and used to blight these hallowed halls of science myself a few years back under a different incarnation, but when I recently learned that he was banned I recalled that LG was a total troll and attention-seeking pain in the backside. So what's it tell you that even people who have been gone two years remember him in a negative light?

As for this:
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You mean there is no evidence that you are willing to accept. And there is just one God, you need not belittle Him by grouping him with Zeus, Loki and Quetzalcoatl.

Then your use of "imaginary figment" shows me your not always a clear thinker or writer yourself. What other sorts of figments are there but imaginary, pray tell?

And we could discuss 'other useful human created and beneficial observations of treating others with respect, dignity, tolerance, and love'. I look forward to it, but this thread was started by an OP that merely asks what shall we replace religion with. Now he may well have meant just what you say, but the only reason any of us think that is because we understand instinctively that treating others with respect, dignity, tolerance, and love is the real business of religion. So actually I am confused. The OP seems to have set us a conundrum: How do you treat people with respect, dignity, tolerance, and love in the absence of respect, dignity, tolerance, and love?

Some posters above have argued that atheists and cavemen and maybe even atheistic caveman had a handle on civility and fair play, and giving their neighbor the cloak off their back and walking that extra mile, but no, I'm sure that much of such thinking originated with a bearded revolutionary Jewish fellow, and his name was not Karl Marx.