When am I not human anymore?

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by Beer w/Straw, Jan 28, 2018.

  1. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    You tell me, I'm just wanting to see if we can say, quantify the humanity of people as per brain cell(s) in the eyes of the law.
     
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  3. river

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    The law of Nature will rule here .
     
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  5. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Generally, the test is if the person is able to rationally express its own desire*. If not, its well-being falls to its guardians.

    Any person under 18 is generally considered to be unable to express its desires for its own well-being from a legal perspective.

    One is in the care of others, in some form or another, until one is at least 18.
     
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  7. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    No, the law of humans, specifically in that country, will rule here.
     
  8. river

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    Disagree

    Nature has a say . In the end , laws of life rule .
     
  9. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    BwS's statement (and indeed, the thread) is about humanity - a human-defined concept.

    Live or die, BwS is asking about it in terms of humanity.
     
  10. river

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    Understood
     
  11. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    If I could kill your brain cells knowingly, say by talking so dumb that some of your brain cells whither and die, should I then be charged with murder?
     
  12. river

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    Yes , if your the only person on the planet
     
  13. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Well, since I cold get up and walk away, it's consensual.
    If I could not, then it's involuntary confinement.
     
  14. Michael 345 Next mythical choc bunnies for mystic who died Valued Senior Member

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    No
    Correct
    When dead you are no longer human you have no rights. In the same way any non alive object cannot have rights
    Yes you may have put in your will certain request for particular care of your body to occur. However any will is ONLY a request, not a command, and while the will was written when you were alive, obviously, its request do not automatically transfer to your dead body

    Dead bodies can not issue commands. Yes there are some legal protections available to assist your alive request are honoured but all are open to challenge

    As a bit of a sideline - Knights are never buried - as soon as they die they cease to be Knights. Odd qurk

    Correct

    You are dead - see above

    Correct

    However "life support" is just that "support"
    The question becomes " If we remove the support will the patient continue to live" NOTE - continue to live NOT - will the patient recover
    During my Registered Nurse training I cared for a patient who had been taken off life support years previously and at the time was not expected to live due to extensive brain damage. Again years ago when he was taken off the life support machine it was decided since it might take a few days for him to die the treating staff at time decided he should not be starved for those last few days and put in a feeding tube (a sort of mini life support)

    I not sure how many years he lasted but I do know he died during my watch which is why I remember so much about him

    He was the victim of a homicide and the killer never found

    No matter the size of the cortex if the person was anywhere on the scale of walking around to being on life support - if the authorities found you you would be charged with murder

    Extremely unlikely one brain cell would support life BUT if it was yes it would be murder

    Pleading "mercy killing" might affect the courts treatment and sentence

    Long long long time (early 1975) since I was peripheraley involved with one and I have no ideas about if laws are formally written into law
    NO

    Life is not qualified by number of brain cells - colour of skin - tall, short, fat thin etc etc

    Self sustaining or with assistance under care would cover most situations of being alive

    Sounds like the perfect weapon
    The Talking DUMB
    Two points. You mention "knowingly" YES you could be charged with murder
    Thought bubble - talk DUMB to detectives until they keel over (or would that tip following detectives to your method?)
    Second point how would investigators pin point the weapon - see previous sentence

    If brain examination showed dead withered brain cells with no known cause it would make a great entry into the medical text books and open up a whole new branch of medical research

    Coffee time

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    Last edited: Jan 29, 2018
  15. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Should a brain cell have more rights than say, haploid cells like an ovum or sperm cell, even though they both require a host body to live in?

    Well, that is if killing a brain cell is like murder...

    :EDIT:

    How much "consciousness" does a single brain cell possess? Are two brain cells connected more human than two singular ones?
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2018
  16. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    I wanted to reply to that in some fashion, but huh?

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  17. Michael 345 Next mythical choc bunnies for mystic who died Valued Senior Member

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    Eggs and sperm and other preserved tissue do not have rights as such but the ownership rights should be detailed by the person from whom the tissue is being taken from

    Killing a brain cell is akin to inflicting a injury

    A single brain cell will not have concessness. Apart from millions of brain cells being required other factors will also be in play

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  18. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    If that were true, all brain cells don't go to heaven, I guess.
     
  19. Michael 345 Next mythical choc bunnies for mystic who died Valued Senior Member

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    As I don't believe in god I would contend nothing goes to heaven

    However I am indulgent enough to say god would take the body as a package deal. Not split the body into its component systems and then further into component pieces

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  20. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Heaven = processed meat.

    We love you Jesus!

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    Wait, what about the amoeba's excrement...
     
  21. Michael 345 Next mythical choc bunnies for mystic who died Valued Senior Member

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    That's how I imagine my brain looks after a good night out.

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    Wait, what about the amoeba's excrement

    No amoeba poopping here folks. Move along please. Nothing to see here

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    Last edited: Jan 29, 2018
  22. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Yes. Really.
    You are still a human, just a dead one.

    And you do not lose all your rights - bizarre as that may seem.

    You have the right to not have your body be subjected to indignities (as attested by the fact that it is a punishable crime for someone to do so.)
    You have the right to have your will and testament honoured.
    etc.
     
  23. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    I'd be most concerned with these rights if I were dead:

    "You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can be used against you. You have the right to an attorney. If you cannot afford one, one will be appointed to you by the court. With these rights in mind, are you still willing to talk with me about the charges against you?"

    Yet, I must say I don't think I'm dead so I can't exactly hold out that my feelings wont change.
     

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