When Is Jesus Coming?

c20H25N3o: That maybe the case. We have very active imaginations after all. However I have never seen God. I just 'know' Him through Jesus Christ.
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M*W: You know Jesus Christ about the same as Paul knew Jesus Christ. Paul never met Jesus, yet told the world everything he 'knew' about Jesus which was nada. The gospels weren't written until AFTER Paul wrote his epistles, so Paul influenced the whole NT based upon the lies he told.

 

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Medicine Woman,

May I ask, if the Gospels were influenced by Paul's writings, then what is your reference point for the "true" Jesus? You believe Paul to be deceitful and filled with lies, and therefore the Jesus presented in the Bible wouldn't be accurate, Him being a misrepresentation based upon the serpentine influence of Paul. I ask then, what is the reference point that you use on which to base this belief?

 

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beyondtimeandspace: Medicine Woman, May I ask, if the Gospels were influenced by Paul's writings, then what is your reference point for the "true" Jesus?
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M*W: I don't believe there is a "true" Jesus, unless you are speaking of the Jewish Rabbi of the first century. This man may have lived and became an historical person. That's still debatable. This Jesus didn't die to save anyone. I don't believe he died on the cross. If he lived, he escaped the crucifixion. Therefore, there is no resurrection to believe in. If you're looking for book references, I can post them again for the 19th million time on sciforums. But, we'll start with just two:

The Mythmaker: Paul and the Invention of Christianity, by Hyam Maccoby.

Bloodline of the Holy Grail: The Secret Genealogy of Jesus, by Laurence Gardner.

That should keep you busy for the time being.
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beyondtimeandspace: You believe Paul to be deceitful and filled with lies, and therefore the Jesus presented in the Bible wouldn't be accurate, Him being a misrepresentation based upon the serpentine influence of Paul.
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M*W: Read The Mythmaker. The Jesus presented in the Bible is NOT accurate. What exactly do you mean about 'the serpentine influence of Paul?' If you're referring to the Serpent of Eden, that's a whole nother story which shouldn't be confused with the NT Paul wrote.
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beyondtimeandspace: I ask then, what is the reference point that you use on which to base this belief?
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M*W: If you mean reference point by my personal revelation, it was when I was a good Christian, a Catholic, and I visited The Vatican on a religious pilgrimage. I found out what I refused to believe for a few years. I was in denial. I talked to priests about it. They just told me that I shouldn't question these things, that they were 'mysteries' that should be believed on faith and faith alone. Even they had no proof or would not offer it to me. I read everything I could find to prove to myself that Jesus was the savior after all, and I was just a heretical blasphemer. It took me years to reach my current level of understanding of Christianity. It is definitely NOT an overnight process. All those years you've been programmed to believe what you believe, it takes years to find the truth -- and accept it! After all, do we just want to settle for what's been imbedded in our minds, or do we want to find out the truth? I'll take the truth over all that 'Christian programming.' When you read and learn things on your own, you are then responsible to yourself, not what other people have been telling you was the truth! When you read The Mythmaker, we will be able to discuss more fully the truth.

 

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That is profound stupidity.

The writer of this narrative penned it many years after Jesus death and was in NO WAY a first-hand witness. Moreover, according to the text, there was no disciple with Jesus during this experience and therefore we can only conclude the text is a fabrication

Nice try though.

 

MW...

Do you believe in Jesus' teachings? Despite the fact that Paul was a deceiver?
(Not saying he IS a deceiver. I simply don't know yet).

 

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M*W: No one knows for sure what Jesus' teachings were. Paul wrote that, and Paul never knew Jesus. I still believe Paul is a major deceiver of Jesus Christ. As far as we know, Jesus never wrote anything of his own. However, Mary Magdalen wrote one of the gospels. MM knew Jesus, they were married. Therefore, MM knew him well. Paul's beliefs trend toward the anti-christ. If you have the desire to believe Jesus, you should read the Gospel of Mary Magdalene, the Gospel of Thomas, and the Gospel of Philip. This is where the true Christ comes from. Paul is nothing but an antichrist. That's what today's belief in Christianity is -- the words of Paul. Paul died for his beliefs, and he brought Peter down with him. What would Jesus say about Paul? He is the antichrist. Jesus' church was the Jerusalem Church, the church that Paul destroyed out of Jealousy. To believe the scripture of Paul is to believe that Christ NEVER existed.

 

When Is Jesus Coming?

It was the rich who murdered Jesus in the first place and ill say the time is soon as the rich are now ruling complete over the world and without resistance the power of the rich was derived of Satan . This is the time of retribution on our real oppressors the rich and the Lord Jesus Our saviour will have his vengeance .


”Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you. Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten. Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.”
James 5:1 to 3

 

You saying I have to go to hell because I decided to get educated and work hard, while some bum on welfare goes to heaven because he can't afford anything?

It is amusing seeing a belief like this and how it would have helped the poor of eons past cope with the fact that life sucked.

 

Are you calling me a liar? I tell you that I know Jesus Christ first through the Holy Spirit and that the teachings of the Bible confirm what I already know to be true.
Tell me M*W - Did Jesus Christ come as a human being? Yes or No? Just Yes or No according to your faith?

peace

c20

 

Are you too calling me a liar? I tell you I know Jesus by the Holy Spirit first which I received upon calling on the name of a being that I did not know but had but a mustard seed of faith that He would answer. Upon doing so a great Spirit descended upon me and I came to know Jesus by that Spirit first, things were revealed to me that I could not even put into English very well. I speak in tongues that reveal God's mind and heart and that which I hear I know is my God because of the love that He has for me.
You want to pin God down over the text in the bible but He laughs at your folly because you do not come to Him in humility. You do not come to Him in humility because you do not want to lose your life. You want to save your own life. You refuse His help and say to yourselves "Huh, Jesus nothing! I am who I am - Jesus is nothing"
How right Jesus was when He refered to Himself as the Stumbling block, the corner stone that men would reject. The stone that men would call insignificant but that which would turn out to be the most important of all.
Jesus is for you, not against you. If you know this and still choose to reject Him you can bang on all you like about your life and such, you are nothing but a wisp of smoke from a flame that has long since died. Jesus is the fire in our hearts, the love that binds us together. Without Him you would be 'nothing'. Turn over your hearts and let them by ruled by Him who is 'love'.

c20

 

Can you possibly be any more arrogant? Jeez..


For someone who bases their beliefs on a "conviction", you sure are quick to dismiss the beliefs of others and make baseless judgements..

 

Just answer the question m8. Are you calling me a liar?


thanks

c20

 

So you are educated and work hard - thank God for that!
As for the bum on welfare - he probably needs a little help from those who are more educated and in a position to help.

How amusing it is that the educated forget that it is by grace that they are not found in a distant country rife with disease and pestilence and no shelter from the rains and winds.
You did not scatter yourself before you were sown my friend but rather it was a wind that took you to the place that you grew up.

Your hypocrisy is laid bare for all to see.

 

c20, I don't think it's a matter of you being a liar. Quite clearly you believe very strongly what you propose. I think it's more a matter of, you are certainly not infallible. You may argue that the God is infallible, that the Holy Spirit is infallible, and that's all just fine and dandy. However, this doesn't say anything about whether or not what you have experienced is genuinely of God. Therefore, you may, in all honesty, be asserting your beliefs in truth, but, in actuality, you may in fact be wrong about such beliefs. I'm not saying you ARE wrong. I'm simply saying that there is certainly a possibility that you are wrong. I think this is what SouthStar is touching upon in calling you arrogant. You believe what you believe so strongly that you don't make room for the fact that you could be wrong.

 

You are right but do you make room for the fact that I may actually be right as well? This is basic division, so simple even a child could understand it.

Take your sides by all means but I tell you the truth I have more respect for those that oppose me than those who sit on the fence. At least they have the courage of their convictions!

peace

c20

 

If there is a God, as the Bible describes him, he is in real trouble if LSD is c20 is the type of person representing him/arguing his case here on earth!

 

c20H25N3o: Are you calling me a liar?
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M*W: If the shoe fits, wear it.
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c20H25N3o: I tell you that I know Jesus Christ first through the Holy Spirit and that the teachings of the Bible confirm what I already know to be true.
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M*W: I just think it's astonishing that you actually believe you know Jesus Christ when biblical scholars aren't sure he ever existed!
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c20H25N3o: Tell me M*W - Did Jesus Christ come as a human being? Yes or No? Just Yes or No according to your faith?
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M*W: For the record, I still believe somewhat that there was a Rabbi named Yeshua ben Joseph who lived in the first century, but I don't believe this man to be anykind of savior nor crucified nor resurrected. The only reason I tend to believe in this man's existence is because of the research I've done on Mary Magdalene. IF MM existed, and there seems to be enough proof that she did, then I would assume she was in love with the Rabbi, and to be a Rabbi, the Jewish Rabbi was required to be married and, hopefully, with a family, as was the Jewish custom of the day.

Archeologists and biblical scholars who have interpreted the Dead Sea Scrolls have found a gospel written by MM among others written by Philip, Thomas, Thecla, etc., and these researchers also believe MM is the true author of the Gospel of John and Revelations. If you check your Bible, you will find that the disciple John always appeared to be in every place where MM was found to be. Also, in those days, the patriarchy didn't take lightly to a women, especially MM, who held any power or authority. The early church patriarchs suppressed these gospels who speak of knowing Jesus personally. It was the Pauline epistles of Paul and Peter who knew MM personally and did everything he (Peter) could do to shame her, call her a liar, and was jealous that Jesus loved MM more than them. Paul never knew MM either, but he wrote and influenced the later gospel authors to describe her as a prostitute. However, the word 'prostitute' in the ancient Hebrew-Aramaic-Greek was 'a woman of independent means -- one who served the temple and its members on a domestic-type basis. The word 'prostitute' in that ancient language, however, does NOT mean 'whore' as in current English.

According to 'my faith,' I used to be a devout christian. I've visited many holy sites in Europe, and I made sure to constantly 'reinforce' my christian beliefs. That was because I had a 'need' to belong then. Then, while in Rome and The Vatican, I lost the 'need' to belong. I saw Rome and The Vatican as being very pagan, and I just couldn't get that out of my head. Then I started reading everything I could about christianity, and I realized Jesus wasn't who christianity was about. It became very clear that christianity was about Peter and Paul. They were good buddies until they got to Rome. Then Paul, being the fickle character he was known to be, wanted to become the first pope, but Peter was the first pope. I cannot remember how long Peter was pope, but they both met their demise in the dungeon of Nero's Circus. Peter was crucified upside down (which is symbol of Satan), and Paul was beheaded after he set Peter up. And these are the two jerks who basically invented christianity! If they were so holy (yeah, right), then how did they end up the way they did? Jesus never knew Paul, yet Paul was the prolific author of everything Jesus. Peter knew Jesus, but it was Paul who wrote "thou art Peter, and upon this 'rock' I will build my church. Again, not Jesus' own words, but Paul's. Additionally, the 'rock' was not referring to Peter, but to God. Look up the biblical definition of 'rock,' and you will see the references to God and not to Peter.

Christianity is nothing more than a facade for Paganism which was the religion of the day. This is not what Jesus was about, but it's what christianity is supposed to be about.

The only faith I have today is in myself and my family and humanity. Humans created the God concept and then the idea that we needed someone to die for our salvation, because we are totally worthless creations. I don't buy that anymore. When I came to sciforums in 2001, I still believed in the idea that there was a God-figure who created everything and dwelled within the universe in the body of humanity, but since then, I have learned the error of my 'needy' faith. I'm glad you're a member of sciforums, too. Maybe you will eventually see the light.

 

Very interesting.....

hat about the gospels of Luke, John, Matthew and Mark?

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That IS true and Paul was also killing Christians, which is quite interesting....

Yes. And I'm beginning to really agree with you on that. Altough I can't say anything for sure until I read some stuff...

Jesus? Married? Where did you read that?

That may be true.

I will certainly put them on the top of the list. But why do you think those are right? and could you provide a link for them, please?

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I don't think your last statement is true.... but here's what I think about the rest...

At first, the church did seem to be going on the right track. A lot of Paul's scriptures seem to be very valued by the catholic church. This is thesame church that killed lots of people in the Inquisition and the Crusades. So it seems that what you are saying actually makes sense! Altough... I don't think the present Pope is evil.... but the next one might very well be...

But... since you say that Paul is the antichrist, could you tell me what are the true teachings of Jesus?

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Ever read Utopia?

 

That's the best thing you have said so far.
Oddly enough, we have this holiday calld "Thanksgiving".... which makes me wonder....Are people really thankful?

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