When Is Jesus Coming?

Actually, I NEVER said I "don't believe there is a God". Now though I *doubt* it, I don't KNOW it. The only rational philiosphy is really to be Agnostic . . . I don't know if there is a God, Gods, Goddesses and etc.,

Really though I'm a "Militant Agnostic" - meaning "I don't know, and neither do YOU". Though you may well BELIEVE, or think you KNOW.

2/3's of Humanity are NOT Christians, and one thing I definately don't believe is that any God who is truly good and loving would have 2/3rds of the people on this planet get tortured in hell because of their beliefs. I refuse to believe that a loving, honest and hardworking person would go to hell because they don't believe the right thing, whereas a nasty, selfish and ill-tempered person could . . . simply because they believe the ''right'' thing.

Because of the place and time you were born into, Christianity seems so real and omnipresent to you. But if you had been born into a different plance and/or time -- it might be completely different God(s)/Goddess(es)/Forces and etc that you would believe in.

Perspective on time and geography puts religion into its place. As they say "Religions change, beer and wine remain".

Anyway, as I've said before - I'd be willing to fight with my life for your right, and everybody elses, to believe absolutely anything they want. But I'm also willing to fight with my life for the right for my life to be absolutely free from having anybody elses beliefs forced on me. You can "lovingly" believe your "loving'' god is going to have me and my beautiful children tourtured for eternity because we didn't pick the right god out of all the choices . . . but I'll spare you a similar judgement.

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I was walking across a bridge one day, and i saw a man standing on the edge,
about to jump off. so i ran over and said "stop! don't do it!" "Why shouldn't
I?" he said. I said, "Well, there's so much to live for!" He said, "Like
what?" I said, "Well...are you religious or atheist?" He said, "Religious."
I said, "Me too! Are you christian or buddhist?" He said, "Christian." I
said, "Me too! Are you catholic or protestant?" He said, "Protestant." I
said, "Me too! Are you episcopalian or baptist?" He said, "Baptist!" I said,
"Wow! Me too! Are you baptist church of god or baptist church of the lord?"
He said, "Baptist church of god!" I said, "Me too! Are you original baptist
church of god, or are you reformed baptist church of god?" He said, "Reformed
baptist church of god!" I said, "Me too! Are you reformed baptist church of
god, reformation of 1879, or reformed baptist church of god, reformation of
1915?" He said, "Reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915!" I
said, "Die, heretic scum", and pushed him off. -- Emo Phillips

 

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I believe in God because I know His voice.

"When you talk to God your praying.
When God talks to you, your schizophrenic"

So what sort of thing does God say to you C20?
Dee Cee

 

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Gravity, first, what you wrote before concerning the Bible should be rejected unless if you, too, are willing to believe the Qur'an. Second, we determine whether a given statement is sturdy and true by our own inspection and by the Holy Spirit. Now our own inspection is neither miraculus nor implausible, for we use a similar process to determine whether we stand on solid ground, and it's reasonable, I think, for someone to conclude that the Bible teaches correctly while the Qur'an teaches incorrectly. In fact, Qur'an mistates the Trinity, attributing all Christians to believing an heretical Nestorian teachings. The Qur'an teaches certain moral values that I do not believe.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. A Christian is not one who believes merely that the Bible is true, but one who believes and follows what Christ said and says to him.

I never said that a mormon couldn't have true faith. I said that God sustains true faith. Just because I disbelieve certain mormon doctrines does not rule out the possibility that a mormon could have faith, given that there are many areas where the mormon believes correctly.

 

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"Thou shalt have no other gods before me"

something like that

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peace

c20

 

Does that mean you can have other gods after him?

 

Cars are idols (a.k.a. "gods")

 

This is a Christian view of the Qur'an (obviously). Where does the Qur'an flatly say that ALL Christians believe in Mary as a person of the Godhead? Remember how Christians sometimes try to resolve "problems" with the Bible? Unless the Bible flat out says "All A is B" and in another statement says "All A is not B", there's no contradiction. And even if it would say that, I'll tell you that it'd still be said that there's no contradiction.

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I'd venture to guess Muslims are probably around as adept as Christians at explaining "apparent" inconsistencies in their holy book as Christians are of theirs. Former "Messianic Jews", for instance, could tell you about "problems" in the NT. And as I referred to in another post, a volume about "alleged discrepancies of the Qur'an" would probably be substantially smaller than an "alleged discrepancies of the Bible". Of course, though, it should be expected that a book revealed to one person would be more consistent than one revealed to many over hundreds of years.

 

I will have to search to find it, anonymous. I know that a heretical passage is attributed to Christians somewhere, and I know for a fact the Qur'an does say "all." But I'm not claiming a contraction here. What I'm claiming is that the direction and teaching is slightly wrong and skewed. Instead of emphasizing sound moral principles, the Qur'an often goes into attacks on unbelievers, including Christians. And, while these attacks may be explained, the consistency of the Qur'an's teachings does not match the Christian NT. (The Bible also goes into these attacks in certain places, but the length and overall emphasis is not skewed so much as the Qur'an.)

Again, I believe the Bible is infalliable not inerrant. I admit the possibility of a contradiction, historical or scientific, but haven't found any except for obvious copying errors. Many muslims may believe the Qur'an infaliable but not inerrant. But, in general, a muslim cannot believe like this, for the Qur'an calls itself perfect

 

The NT sometimes talks negatively about Jews and other "unbelievers". The Qur'an could still be perfect and have "alleged" errors. All they gotta do is what some Fundamentalist Christians do with the Bible and explain them all away through whatever means. And as for the Bible being perfect, I don't know a verse off hand, but there are many Christians who believe just that, and I venture to guess they have Bible verses to back that up. Though it can be argued if there is hatred toward unbelievers in the NT. "You are of your father the devil" is not the kindest thing to be seen. Though I will agree that the Qur'an focuses on unbelievers, believers, heaven and hell more than even the Bible from what I can see.

Not that I'm trying to convince you that the Qur'an is perfect, I'll let a Muslim try that.

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That is an incredulously stupid statement.

Without the Bible you wouldn't know what the heck the Holy Spirit is so saying you need to have the Holy Spirit to understand the Bible is a foolish claim.

 

Well, you are mistaken. Often the Pharisees are berated, but the Jews who remained without hypocrisy are, as portrayed in the Bible, without blame. Thus, I believe Jesus was merely using the Pharisees as an examaple of hypocrisy. Not to put down but to instruct. For instance, he says "be aware of the yeast of the Pharisees."

Southstar mentioned the verse somewhere. But, for all its worth, the Bible (assuming Paul spoke of Scripture in the general fashion) simply says it's good for reproof and correction. Further claims to authencity of the OT could be made by Jesus' statement that not one iota of the law would be taken away until all is accomplished. But, again, this verse applies only to the OT and the law, not to the books after the law.

This verse in John where its made clear that those who do not hear Jesus' voice belong to the devil. When viewed from a Jewish propective, where Jesus is not divine, this is indeed disrespectful. But if Jesus is divine, then it follows that his voice is not within the paper but within there hearts, as the voice of good. If don't listen to the voice of good, then we cannot be good.

Well, yes, that's why many muslims recommend to study the Qur'an with another muslim or read a book on the subject. For example, if a surah is given by Muhammed just before a battle, the surah doesn't necessarily apply to peacetime. The bottomline here is that people listen to their own interpretation, irrespective of the real meaning, instead of their hearts. The Bible makes a better case for this interpretation (1 John); the Qur'an leaves it up to the reader.

 

So I guess when the Bible says not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers, what fellowship has light with darkness, Christ with Belial, it was just an instruction? You can read it that way if you wish. The NT demonizes unbelievers, as the Qur'an does.

 

A word on Unbelief from a Christian perspective


In all unbelief there are these two things: a good opinion of one's self and a bad opinion of God. Man's good opinion of himself makes him think it quite possible to win God's favor by his own religious performances; and his bad opinion of God makes him unwilling and afraid to put his case wholly into God's hands. The object of the Holy Spirit's work (in convincing of sin) is to alter the sinner's opinion of himself and so to reduce his estimate of his own character that he shall think of himself as God does, and so cease to suppose it possible that he can be justified by any excellency of His own. The Spirit then alters his evil opinion of God, so as to make him see that the God with whom he really has to do is the God of all grace!

Horatius Bonar
Taken from http://grace-for-today.com/308.htm

 

Unbelief, in this case, would refer to someone who despite knowing the truth chose to disbelieve. (This definition follows from the definition of Christian belief: someone can have knowledge that Christ is divine without believing in Christ. (1 John) )

Demonizing is a bit harsh. I see nothing in the Bible beyond giving consequences and warnings for those who choose disbelief.

 

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M*W: All I can say is the trusism. if the vote is set in stone, we acquire the rights to the global synasim. Your vocation is ruled by the deposotism jas, the proptistion, that whics is the world without spositions. I love my baby Fuzzy. He's the extension of my baby Susan or Toodz! It is only thru my Toodzasim that this baby comes. He's my baby. Toodz is my baby. Mr. Garrison is my baby, and I love him with all my life. He is the baby of my life. He is the true creation of my life. I love this baby. I love this baby. He wants us to love him -- those of us who are free to love this Republican naby. My baby is a Republican. He voted Republican. He's not a Kerry-man, my baby is a GWB0 man. This is my baby -- a republican baby -- he didn't vote for the asshole kerry. My baby voted from the Bush conserotoroy. My baby is no democrat. Democrats lead the world into communism. Democracy = Communism. My baby Republican = peace upon the Earth. My baby, Republican releases love for the universe. My Fuzzy Baby is the King of the Universe! My baby Fuzzy is the KING OF THE UNIVERSE! MY BABY FUZZY IS THE KING OF THE UNIVERSE! I LOVE MY FUZZY BABY. He's the KING OF THE UNIVERSE! He's my baby Fuzzy. He's the fuzzy baby. My fuzzy baby is the King of the Universe! I love my Fuzzy baby. I will give up my life for my fuzzy baby! My fuzzy baby is King of the Universe! I've never loved a baby like I love my fuzzy baby. My fuzzy baby is the KING OF MY UNIVESE----He's the ruler of my life. I love my Fuzzy BaBy -- My Fuzzy Baby is everything to me. I will die for my Fuzzy Baby. There is no reaction to my Fuzzy Baby from this website. My Fuzzy Baby is the King of the Universe! My Fuzzy Baby is the KING OF THE UNIVERSE. He makes me proud. My Fuzzy Baby makes me proud. I will live for this little critter. I will die for this little critter. He is my life, and I love my Fuzzy Baby. I'm so proud of Toodz for giving me this Fuzzy BaBy. She is my Goddess. SHe is my hero. Mark loves his babby. Toodz loves her baby. I'm only asking for them to share my Mr. Fuzzy with Them. He's a beautiful, beautiful baby boy. I'm so proud of Toodz for giving us a 'pink one.' He's a pink baby, just like you were, Steven. Thank you to Toodz for getting us a pink one! I love my pink one soooooo much!. I love my little boy toy so much.... He's such a beutiful little boy who loves his 'Nannie' and 'Paw Paw.' Douglas wants to take him out and play football with his little body. Dougly loves his grandson, too!. Maybe this grandson will call him "Paw Paw." He's ready to go out and play some football! My little boy loves his Nannie and Paw Paw! Life is good -- so good! We have our little boy, and we have each other. We love our little boy as much as we love each other. Thank GOD our little boy is ours! He is so pretty and so special! Our little lover boy is so smart. He knows when we're talking to him -- he smiles, and I kiss him all over his pretty face. He's a definite ladies man, and he will break some hearts in his day. But, no one will love Mr. Fuzzy like we do! He's such a sexy little critter right now! I love my little boy with all my heart. I've even asked Mark if I could have him, but Mark just laughed! This babster is MINE, ALL MINE! I love his little carcus! I love my baby boy! About 30 years ago, I was saying that I loved my baby boy, but now Mr. Garrison Keller Fox is my new lover-boy. I love this little man with all my heart, and my strength, and my spirit. I love Mr. Garrison Keller Fox. He is the light of my life.

 

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M*W: I guess I have over-reacted to my newest grandchild, Mr. Fuzzy, born on October 9, in Houston, Texas. He's definitely a fuzzy baby, a beautiful baby boy! He's the first grandchild from my youngest daughter, Susan, or Toodz, and he is a beautiful baby boy, if I do say so myself. Mr. Fuzzy is so alert and knows his Nannie and Paw Paw. We are the very proud grandparents! Life goes on, long after the living is gone, rock on, my little baby boy! Rock on!!!!

 

Now go and smite Am'alek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.'"

Deuteronomy 7:2
"and when the Lord your God gives then [the enemies] over to you, and you defeat them; then you must utterly destroy them; you shall make no covenant with them, and show no mercy to them..."

Numbers 31:7
They warred against Midian, as the Lord commanded Moses, and slew every male.

Numbers 31:17
[Moses said to them] "... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known a man by lying with him..."

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