Oh guys, really, numbers came from bananas. A retrospective. 1 =1 1x=1x 1banana=1banana Hence, banana=banana
I disagree, numbers really came from rocks. Or maybe from the designs we started painting on rocks other than representations of animals, or outlines of a hand. The anthropology of our symbol-making might have begun when we picked up two rocks and struck one with the other. Or maybe not. Maybe not, because there were two rocks before we picked them up, maybe there was a big pile of rocks, a finite number of them just sitting there. When we started associating symbols, like say dots painted on a rock, with numbers that were "just sitting there", we just applied a symbolic logic. But that doesn't mean we invented a pile of rocks.
A bit more about that soap bubble, and the shape it assumes. The physics of a fluid surface which maintains a stable state, is based on particles interacting. Where? at a boundary of course. The shape is determined by the physics of say, Brownian motion and hydrophilic/hydrophobic interactions of soap molecules with water molecules. The two wire loops can be rotated in a horizontal plane without de-stabilising the surface--it just slides along the wire surface because it's made of a fluid. Duh. (Sorry, just physics again . . .) Gravity doesn't seem to affect the shape, it isn't drooping downwards. But if a single loop had a soap film inside it, it would bend into a bowl shape. This is what a chain or a cable does when you hang both ends of it from a pair of upright poles. The 'one-dimensional' curve of a cable is a catenary, it has a solution in calculus with hyperbolic functions: sinh, cosh. But the stable upright surface in the image I posted, has its mass distributed such that the centre of mass is also where all the surface lines in the 'twisted' version (the animation) meet, once each period. It's something that makes you go hmm, because an hyperboloid can be seen as an 'algebraically twisted' cylinder, which at a point in time becomes a pair of right cones. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Mario Livio suggests that human features probably were the first inspiration for numerical cognition. two eyes, two arms, two legs, two breasts. Seems the number "two" of something is staring us in the face on a daily basis. All it required was a symbolic representation of (two = II)
Yes but it only takes one eye to view two eyes, one ear to hear one mouth. This has a lot to do with intelligent design and symmetry...
Noooooo Wrong on so many levels F for fail Read and study human anatomy and its evolution along with other life forms Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Are you denying the symmetry of the human-being? Or fruit and vegetables for that matter? One side is a reflection of the other. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
"How can you do this? Not on republic credits I hope." I will admit that flora lack symmetry, but not the leaves or the packaging for seeds (which are spread by animals eating the fruit or vegetable, and providing manure for the younglings.) Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
(One hand, two hands), (One foot, two feet), (I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII, IX, X), (full moon, half moon, quarter moon), numbers are all around. Lemurs can count! The ability to identify more from less, or even an innate sense of time intervals starts very early on in the evolution of organisms. The slime mold has the ability to anticipate. It seems fundamental to the ability for efficient energy conservation ratios. Cold blooded lizards, flowers closing entering a state of hibernation, seasonal phenomena of growth and decay. It's all mathematical albeit probabilistic in its very essence.
The universe appears to have enough symmetry that we might assume nature was (and is still) parsimonious. But the symmetry of spacetime is broken, three dimensions of space and one of time have different signs. If the universe was completely symmetric it would have all four dimensions the same, it would be Euclidean. Because it isn't, and there is only one universe (right now), we have a universe with gravity, and with three other 'forces'. Maybe that's all there is, apart from all the structure. What would it look like without the broken symmetry? The assumption (or assertion) in theoretical physics is that the four forces were identical, so there was only one, at a postulated unification energy. Today, obviously they aren't. Is that why numbers exist? Or is it just coincidence that an intelligent form of life started to count, so numbers appeared because counting needs numbers.
IMO, numbers do not exist in nature, values do. They exist in human accounting (science) and are symbolic representations of relative natural values and functions and how they interact, independent from any observation.
Well, let's suppose that what goes on in a human brain is part of nature. I think that's a reasonable thing to assume. Value is definitely something humans 'invent', why value gold over, say iron? Both occur naturally, independently of human observation. What you mean by natural values are things like say, how much of something there is, regardless of its value, to us?
I believe that "movement in the direction greatest satisfaction " is a powerful incentive for the brain to seek clarity. I was not thinking of any monetary or numerical value. What makes gold naturally more valuable is that it resists oxidation as compared to iron. Though iron itself has it own peculiarly valuable potentials. For one, iron is the oxygen carrier in our blood. An extremely valuable property of iron for living organisms. In the deep ocean copper is the preferred oxygen carrier in the blood. That's why octopuses have blue blood. In short, all things in the universe are a product of interacting values of one kind or another, regular patterns of behavior, emerging from chaotic conditions. Energy is a natural value. Mass is a natural value. SOL is a natural value. i.e. all constants are natural values. All Elements have/are natural values. I see a natural "value" as a positive or negative aspect or potential of a thing or pattern. I see "equations" as the comparison of two different values which produce the same result if compared from a different perspective. This perspective allows me to think of the Universe as a mathematical object which can be (theoretically) fully described by the symbolic human language of mathematics. Hence my interest in Tegmark who claims that all patterns have intrinsic relative values, and that after all is said and done the mathematical nature of the universe is undeniable, IMO. If the Universe is at all deterministic, it must function by a natural form of mathematically exacting processing of natural values and functions. The proof is in our ability to artificially imitate the mathematical processes and predict the result in advance. It sounds so naturally honest.
1 banana + 1 cup flour + 1 egg + 1/2 cup milk + agitation until well-mixed + in 4 x 8 baking pan, bake dough for 45 minutes @ 425F = 1 loaf banana bread.......Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
I would guess the first truly interesting imitated patterns were of the constellations and seasons as they directly affected daily lives. And causality was assigned to gods. Just think that the "weather pattern" bringing thunder and lightning had the named Zeus or Thor Clearly completely out of reach, these lights (stars) had to be the"windows" to the gods and the seasons were ruled by gods. Sacrifices were made to assure rich harvests or rewarding hunts. Astrology is probably the oldest pseudo-scientific study of all sciences. Astronomy is the current, more rigorous science of stying the Universe (heavens). p.s. I still find it interesting that the word Universe is not related to " Uni Verse" or "Single Song". Is that just coincidence?
