Where is most "gravity", inside or out?

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience' started by nebel, Feb 29, 2016.

  1. Janus58 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,394
    No. That graph shows how gravitational force changes with distance. Gravitational potential energy would be represented by the area under the curve, and even though that curve extends off to infinity to the right, the area under the curve is finite. So the gravitational energy above the surface of a body is related to GM/r where M is its mass, and r its radius.
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. nebel

    Messages:
    2,469
    Dave: obviously the text does not imply that the strength of the gravitational field is infinite. It is the reach that is, Yes perhaps beyond the 13.8 light years distance of our present universe. because,
    if Energy is indestructible, uncreated, therefore infinitely old, and
    if Einstein is right, in that mass and energy are equivalent, then
    Gravity extends beyond our universe, please see the" ALMA " thread.
    The red line shows a new gravity concept, , the total, unvarying, summation of the field strength over the total surroundings at a given Radius. a constant. Undiminished into the distance, as far as we know. (inverse square values adding and subtracting, cancelling. ) therefore,
    There is even more "gravity" outside than is obvious from the field strength graphs alone.
    The extend of the reach is factored in above.
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,935
    The universe is considerably more than 13.8 light years in radius.

    I'll assume that was a typo, and that you meant 13.8 billion light years in radius. To which the correct response is:

    The universe is considerably more than 13.8 billion light years in radius.


    Do you think that maybe conjectures about how gravity and the universe works might benefit from - say - familiarizing yourself with the subject?
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2020
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. nebel

    Messages:
    2,469
    I stand corrected, I meant to write 13,8 billion years.
     
  8. nebel

    Messages:
    2,469
    Janus,
    That is true of the blue line, part of the original diagram given by origin in post #2, and here and now modified to show the constant surface summation of the gravity field strength. This is the product of the g x 4 x pi x r^2. With increasing radius from the surface the g field strength falls with the inverse square, but at the same time the size through which gravity acts increase with the r^2 of the formula above, thus the resultant red line.

    Good point about the area! thank you, but the point of this diagram is the new red line, and the heights, developing area under that red line does not diminish with distance, taken into infinity is not finite, ever increasing with distance. That does not mean infinite gravity, but gravity of equal total strength stretching into the distance.
    The total gravitation acting out of a mass' surface remains constant into the distance (as far as we know). it is just dispersed over a greater area./ volume
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2020
  9. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,935
    13.8 billion years is not a distance; it is a duration.

    So the sentence

    "Yes perhaps beyond the 13.8 billion years distance of our present universe..."

    from post 582 would still be nonsensical. Care to try a third time?
     
  10. river

    Messages:
    17,307
    Nebel ( and to all really )

    Gravity waves say different , they move outward , from the source , not inward .
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2020
  11. nebel

    Messages:
    2,469
    Dave,
    In the the reference to the reach of the gravitational field (strength, total) I tried to define the limit, and possibly lack of such. , if Energy and it's alter ego, Matter, cause it, and if energy is uncreated, like time,-- than the reach of gravity too goes beyond the age /size of our finite universe.
    In the Alma thread, the size of the universe is linked to it's age/extent in time, the first dimension. If you strip us of our 3 dimensions, you are left with time, all that really matters in the end. so:
    I meant, that the reach of gravity possibly goes beyond what the 13.8 age limit imposes. (of course super luminal inflation would push the spatial size beyond 13.8x1o^9
    Gravity too has a duration, moves through time with us.
    The red line shows it stays the same and goes a long way.
     
  12. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,935
    Changes to gravity propagate at the speed of light. If light hasn't reached it, neither have changes in its gravitational potential.
     
  13. river

    Messages:
    17,307
    None of these changes , changes the fact that , gravitational waves moves away from the source .
     
  14. nebel

    Messages:
    2,469
    River,
    true, but what happens when the event , the source happens at the point of greatest gravity field strength? at the surface of the entity, ( The pinnacle at R in the diagram above) ??, -then the anomaly wave will travel both outward and inward, with a rebound no doubt. Possibly giving us a standing interference wave.
     
  15. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,935
    What event?
     
  16. river

    Messages:
    17,307
    Why at the surface of the entity ?
     
  17. nebel

    Messages:
    2,469
    Dave,
    Gravity has reached, where light did not yet. (unless gravitons will turn out to be electro=magnetic too). In the Alma thread, All photons are understood to travel in the membrane #3 which contains all the universe in/of the model. Gravity on the other hand is a surface phenomenon, and the past time # 2 is void of it, but the "outside" future time # 1 is not.
    The shell theorem dictates, that all gravity is on the outside, none in the interior of an empty sphere.
     
  18. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,935
    That's why I said "changes in".

    No it doesn't. You're being sloppy with terms.
     
  19. river

    Messages:
    17,307
    Nebel

    Explain # 3-#2-#1 .
     
  20. nebel

    Messages:
    2,469

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    Because the surface is where the action, the first contact, the most gravity is even here on earth.
     
  21. river

    Messages:
    17,307
    Not the surface Nebel , but where these to objects come in contact , the brightness at the joining .
     
  22. nebel

    Messages:
    2,469
    Both Newton and Gauss have proven that an empty spherical cavity of a shell is void of any gravitational field strength .
     
    river likes this.
  23. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,451
    That's better. However, since the gravitational potential is not zero, it is important, as always, to be clear whether you are speaking of the force of gravity or the potential.

    Referring to "gravity" without qualification is thus liable to lead to confusion - as shown by some of the confusion you got yourself into earlier in this thread.
     
    DaveC426913 likes this.

Share This Page