Who Created God?

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by H-kon, Sep 28, 1999.

  1. andyr Registered Member

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    15
    Aztec religion says that their God came to Earth in a flaming chariot, etc. Quetzalcoatl (their god) was white and had a beard (a similar description to the steriotypical image of Jesus Christ). If we take this view further, could it mean that our God (whatever religion) is an extra-terrestrial and he/she/it was created through evolution just like ourselves? This removes the question who created god, and alien technology could easily have created the miracles described in the bible etc.

    Andy.R
     
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  3. Lori Registered Senior Member

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    Ahhhhhhh!!!!!!!!! Just stop it, ok???? Andy, Jesus wasn't white, and God is not an alien!!!!!!!!!!! See????? What have I been telling you people????? This is the deception!!!!!!!!!

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    God loves you and so do I!
     
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  5. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Lori:

    You are correct that Jesus wasn't white. However, I believe your faith is obscuring an aspect of this. Okay, Jesus wasn't white and God is not an alien. What have these two things to do with one another? Nothing, unless a person subscribes to a faith similar to the one you espouse.

    I understand that in a Christian universe, the Father-Son-Holy Spirit thing is supposed to be fact. But there is no deception until its established within the context of the discussion that the only "god" we are debating is the one who has presided so sporadically over the Judeo-Christian empires.

    As to the great white god Quetzalcoatl:

    Andyr:

    Let me say up front I have no data at present to give you the specific example of this society interacting with the Aztecs. I'm working on it, among other things because it's a cool part of history that doesn't get told.

    At any rate: Between 2500 y.a. and 1492 c.e., a number of groups beat Columbus to the American continent. Evidence suggests that the Celts, Phonecians, Tartessians, and Nubians all hit the American continent starting around 700-600 b.c.e.

    Like I said, I can't connect the Aztecs themselves to this process because I can't find the information in the following sense: "During ____ [year/period], the ____ [nation/people] encountered the Aztecs at ____ [place]." I wish I could, to make this even more relevant. The theory itself is only about 20-30 years old, but the idea is so new to the culture that OMNI's website includes a small piece about a Phonecian coin found on the American continent, and asks if it's even possible for those people to have even made it here. So it's not a well-known theory yet, but it's there and it's not nearly as whacked as I expected it to be.

    But all that just to put my two cents in on the precolumbian American empires and their gods.

    thx,
    Tiassa

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    "Let us not launch the boat until the ground is wet." (Khaavren of Castlerock)
     
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  7. Lori Registered Senior Member

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    Ok Tiassa,

    If everything that is written in revelations comes true, THEN would you believe that Jesus is Christ, or would you still be blinded to the truth? What if I told you that one of these days here real soon, that I was going to disappear along with many other Bible-believing Christians, and the aliens are going to take credit for it by saying that they took us away to another planet to finish our development, because we were too close-minded to evolve with the rest of the planet during this "dimensional shift" of sorts? Would you say I'm full of shit? OK then, just watch. And when it happens, just remember that I knew it was going to happen, and then ask yourself how did she know that? AND know that I am not on some other planet living the rest of my 3rd dimension evolution out as some flippin' octopus, but am with Jesus, and awaiting the martyrs, which I sincerely hope that you will be one.

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    God loves you and so do I!
     
  8. PercyPea Registered Senior Member

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    God wasnt created, he is outside time, which means he never had a start and will never have an end

    He is not only omnipotent, but he is also in every single second of 'our' time at once.

    I hope that clears the start of this topic up monkees

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  9. Lori Registered Senior Member

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    Thank you PercyPea, that does a very nice job of clearing things up.

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    God loves you and so do I!
     
  10. PercyPea Registered Senior Member

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    Im glad i can help monkee

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    Im a shambles, but Im Gods shambles!!
     
  11. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Messages:
    36,616
    Lori--

    The dangerous thing about whether or not the Revelations come true is that their realization is subjective; serveral doomsday cults have predicted the end of the world based on interpretations of the Revelations. Whether Branch Davidian, Millerite, or that Korean cult that saw October, 1993 as the end of the world, each of these groups truly believed the Signs were upon them. In each case, well, we know the rest.

    So, while I would not actually put the words into your mouth for you, there is the risk of the following:

    "Yes, if the Revelations came true, I would believe."
    "But," said the Christian. "Look, the signs are upon us ... why do you not believe?"

    In the long run, a coincidence of circumstances is not enough to convince me that a vague prophecy has come true. War? Famine? Pestilence? Puh-leeze. Oh, and that fourth horseman: Death. "What killed him?" Well, Death killed him.

    So, specifically, no, the coming of the Revelations won't convince that Jesus is Christ.

    I always had a joke that I would believe in Jesus as Christ when he popped up on the streetcorner and we drank a few beers together while hammering out the finer points which generations of misdirection have dulled. This theory falls through, as well, though, because even if Jesus did appear for a night on the town, he still, by principle, cannot proclaim himself Christ.

    And then there's your own words: "Would you say I'm full of shit? OK then, just watch. And when it happens, just remember that I knew it was going to happen, and then ask yourself how did she know that?"

    OK. First, I like to be cautious when I say you're full of anything. Secondly, I love that "Just watch ... I knew it was going to happen" bit. So is it about God or about you being right?

    And this is where I have an unfair argumentative advantage. I have no God restricting me from hypocrisy, arrogance, or other mistakes of presentation. You, on the other hand, do.

    Oh, wait. It's okay. I forgot ... you're forgiven.

    Tiassa

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    "Let us not launch the boat until the ground is wet." (Khaavren of Castlerock)
     
  12. Boris Senior Member Registered Senior Member

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    There we go again with the time issue. Why is it so hard to understand that if God exists outside of time, then he/she/it could never actually <u>do</u> anything? Because "doing" something, like creating the universe for example, implies a sequence of events <u>in time</u>. For example, intent <u>followed by</u> action. You can't have that outside time!!!

    Though, of course, God does work in mysterious ways. It doesn't matter how nonsensical God is; it must exist because the Bible said so. D'ohhhhh......

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    I am; therefore I think.
     
  13. PercyPea Registered Senior Member

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    Why is it so hard to understand that if God is super powerful then he can do whatever he wants, inside or out side of time.

    He just does things outside of human comprehension boris monkee, its as simple as that

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    Im a shambles, but Im Gods shambles!!
     
  14. Mierdaan Registered Member

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    11
    I have to say I find myself agreeing with Boris more and more on this board. The most simple explanation of "Who created God?" is that man did. If you happen to be one of the adherents of Occam's Razor, that alone should be a simple enough explanation. Since, for most people, it is not (including myself), lets delve a little deeper.

    To analyze and thereby criticize Christianity on this board is a hanging offense, so lets take for our example Greek/Roman mythologies. We call them mythologies because we, from our "enlightened" viewpoints, "know" they aren't true. What's to say that some greater society in another 500 years, after the decline of Christianity, won't look back and say the same things about ABOUT christianity? What we know now about Greek/Roman mythologies is that they were convient ways for those civilizations to explain events in the world around them that they couldn't explain by themselves. Being that I don't subscribe to any particular religion, I believe I can objectively say that ALL religions serve exactly the same purpose as the mythologies of old: To explain the unexplainable by creating something even MORE unexplainable, and to provide Man with security by entrusting the well-being of the world to a higher power.

    -Mierdaan

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    "Not all who wander are lost..."
    -J.R.R. Tolkien
     
  15. Searcher Registered Senior Member

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    651
    Boris,

    I have a computer game called Civilization, that I have wasted many countless hours playing. I save the game at certain strategic times, so that if I don't like the turn a particular game takes, I can quit and open the file at some earlier time and make different decisions based on the advantage of knowing what happened when I made the wrong choice. I can also choose a previous game and watch it unfold as if for the first time. However, having played that particular game before, I already know the outcome of the game. Do you see any parallels here?
     
  16. Vanja Registered Senior Member

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    Searcher-I understand that which you're trying to convey, but we aren't a big game to God.
     
  17. SkyeBlue Registered Senior Member

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    While we're arguing about who(what) created God, or if he/she/whatever already existed eternally and forever...

    Can anyone prove to me that I'm not eternal? As far as I can tell I've existed as long as time itself has. I have no memories of what came before me, therefore there was nothing before me. I have no concept of what will come after me, therefore nothing will come after me. Could it be that God is under this same misaprehension? In other words - maybe God just thinks he has existed eternally, and misinformed Peter and all the other bible-writers... Would God remember his own birth? Does anyone reading this remember their own birth? Just curious.
     
  18. truestory Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,122
    Hello SkyeBlue,

    I don't remember my birth but I believe that I do remember the first time I came to the realization that I was alive. I was a toddler and my grandfather was playing too roughly with me. He was sitting on a couch cushion with my head under it, teasing me. I felt like I was being suffocated. When he finally let up, I came out from under the cushion, took a big gulp of air and I remember being happy that I was "alive". Anyone else?


    [This message has been edited by truestory (edited October 26, 1999).]
     
  19. Searcher Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    651
    Vanja,

    Although I can appreciate your point of view, I do not necessarily agree (and I don't necessarily disagree, either - I simply don't know). The way I see it, there are 3 possible reasons for our existence:

    1) We are all part of some cosmic game.

    2) We are required to eventually serve some useful purpose, presently unknown to us.

    3) We simply exist.

    Choice number one implies multiple players. In that case, I would tend to believe it is a game between aliens as I would have a difficult time believing that God would have either a need for such pastimes, or an opponent with whom to compete. It also implies that our usefulness expires when we do.

    Choice number two implies that some of us who prove ourselves to be unquestioningly obedient, hard workers and blindly loyal to the first being who comes along and claims to be God, will be chosen to do some future task. The rest of us would no doubt be discarded. Again, this to me suggests an alien hand working behind the scenes, as I can't imagine God having a need for cheap slave labor.

    Choice number three implies that there is no great purpose for our existence other than to just enjoy the experience of life to the fullest extent possible. Do what you love and love what you do; live and let live; discover the paradise within. This seems to me to be the choice most consistent with what I believe God to be. His energy permeates all things, and through us and all things in the universe, he can experience and be a part of all that is, was or will be.
     
  20. 666 Registered Senior Member

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    378
    Pepole tend externalize the parts of themselve's that they have a hard time accepting. From this basic thought I belive that the God and Satan duality comes from inside each of them. God being the part that they feel is good and all loving, and Satan being the part they have been taught and instinctively feel is wrong but none the less is part of who they are.

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    The Belief that there is only one truth and that oneself is in possession of it
    seems to me the depest root of all evil that is in the world
    -Max Born
     

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