Who designed the designer?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Xelasnave.1947, Dec 6, 2017.

  1. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    Not at all as that would justify me buying the larger one that I want.
    Its all about how you see the world.
    I am free of the crap that crushes so many.
    But perhaps the thing for you to do is to try and realise that not everyone thinks the same way...I took time to explain but it seems you just turn off and miss what I explained and then seek to tell me how I really think...you are imprisoned in a make believe world invented thousands of years ago and ruled by the thoughts of others you have been taught to respect and honor whereas I reject using the thoughts of others when I have my own.
    And so you fear death and presumably hell and think because someone wrote something that sounds cute that they are clever...So different to my world where there is no God and tradition and custom are just stuff they did last year with no relevance in my world.
    For all you have learnt can you claim to have had an original thought or idea.
    Why let bronze age folk dictate your direction as it seems just silly to me.
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  3. Musika Last in Space Valued Senior Member

    Kind of reminscent of that joke about praying to have the wisdom to tell the difference between things one can change and cannot change, but also with the proviso that one has enough money so as to not to care either way.

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    By health, by wealth, by personal relationships, by education etc we may do good in certain fields, but no one does good in them all. Living in the material world has contingent issues of anxiety .... hence a certain sort of status is awarded to fortitude, contingency plans etc.

    I think we have been through this before. Retirement from the workforce is something. Subsisting independent from society is something else entirely (which, even if pulled off simply leaves natural calamities, one's own body and the interference of other critters as competitors for robbing our equilibrium)

    Generally its not death that causes the anxiety, but what occurs along the way. You don't require a view of the next world to appreciate anxiety in this world, nor does the absence of such a view do anything to diminish such anxiety.
    If you found a snake in your shoe or suddenly got deported to Venezuela, I am pretty sure you would start exuberantly pole dancing regardless of your views of the next life.

    That is easier said than done. Usually people say such things when they are unaware of the cultural/social biases they exemplify.

    If anxiety driven pole dancing hasn't changed any, its not clear to what you are pointing to as the improvement
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  5. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    You are right I owe it to myself to get that other scope.

    The real damage of loss is reliving it rather than realising the loss is in the past and worrying about what you could of or should have done is irrelevant and only causes upset...so one must move on immediately.

    However so many folk go over and over a loss or set back and seem to enjoy relating their misfortune to others ... anything for attention I expect.

    Status? I look at folk trying to hold a position and often trying to be more than they are..pretenders. ..sorry excuses for a human.

    I dont care for it..why bother ranking oneself...other folk can rank me above or below them I really dont care what they think of me as their opinion is irrelevant to my life... ...although I spend more time in the city than I like I still live as a hermit and so I have no interest in the ranking race most find themselves in...

    I expect the social pressure to proclaim yourself as a believer in many places in the USA together with the fear of death and hell must make life rather miserable if you dare think about things.

    I like thinking.

    I expect having to pay 10% of ones income to a church must be horrible given one gets nothing in return...and of course I bet there are folk who would starve or borrow to pay their 10% church tax rather than lose "status".

    You are into the god thing and I bet you pay 10% cause everyone else does ...

    you know the first key to being well off? ... you pay yourself first..pay yourself 10% of whatever comes into your hands..before the rent or mortgage, before all bills and use only what is left for the many who want a slice...if you pay a church first you are a fool.

    Not to pay yourself before all others means you are a slave, if you pay the church you are the victim of a con job.

    I know all this is irrelevant but I feel like helping folk☺

    Hardley subsisting...it is the ultimate...would you not enjoy the luxury of not sucking up to anyone?
    You must have a boss or a bank of clients or customers that you suck up to...

    To do what you want to do not what others expect you should do to fit their concept of the world is great...only having to please yourself is hardley subsisting..it is sucess.

    Its not hard to be smarter than the ones you leave behind...and then you confront yourself and rid yourself of the crap put there by others and enjoy real freedom of thought and expression.

    Take your 10% church tax and put it aside for your escape.

    Learn to live without it and enjoy the cards you are dealt today and how you can manage the unmanagable.

    True I am surprised no one has come after me for being outspoken and no doubt they dont because I am too insignificant to worry about... And perhaps I am just crazy.. I certainly cant influence anyone or lead a revolution I am more dangerous to myself than anyone really.

    I dont understand your pole dancing thing at all and I am surprised that I need to spell out what I mean.

    Look we live in the most wonderful era humans have enjoyed, and for the very first time in history the average mug (person) can educate themselves upon any subject you can think upon...we have the net, and we have utube, we have wiki...to name a few of the treasures we already take for granted and these things enable even a mug like me to inform himself and work out that we have most of the answers to questions folk in the bronze age could not even understand could be asked...and yet we have this group of humans still placing credibility upon stuff born from opinion and superstition to the point they hold it over and above our accumulated knowledge.

    There are still folk who think humans came from two individuals made by god simply because its in a book written thousands of years ago by folk uneducated and ignorant of facts that today a kindergarden kid knows.

    The point I make is why would you go back to the bronze age for knowledge or guidance. .. it's crazy but crazy rules it seems.

    Folk these days would not want a product made last year because it is behind the times but have no problem looking for explanation to a whole range of things in religions of the bronze age...you seem to see no problem in doing so which I see as your problem.

    Maybe you are in a position of power and accept that having those you want to control brain washed as a good thing ... and I guess if I was to control huge numbers of humans religion would be a lazy way to achieve tight control.

    I suppose the question is..do we have religion to keep the masses under control and train them up to accept whatever crap we put upon them.

    I suppose in the USA you can have more people rally with a call to believers than a call to whites or blacks or school kids...a call to believers has 70% to 80% of folk coming to your call.

    So I admit its a great tool to control populations...I guess it just annoys me that most humans are so gullible.

    I like the utube show the Atheist Experience and I have been genuinely surprised just how many stupid folk call in...not only from USA but even one crazy fool from Australia...so they are everywhere.

    Why do humans need to know the details of creation or a creator ... I dont care..I am here and know that I will never know the truth as to if there was a begining or not...I wont lay awake wondering about it either.

    And these folk who get upset about the suggestion they are related to apes I just can not understand.

    Why would you care why we are here or how we got here etc.

    Why reach for a pack of lies rather than say "well I just dont know".

    Anyways I wont be around much longer so I intend to concentrate on doing stuff rather than being here chatting about the world.

    I must say its nice to have had a few chats with you and I hope your life goes well for you.

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  7. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

    No one in my opinion. It could of been as simple as God opening his eyes one day which created everything he wants to watch, laugh about, kill. The question is if we accept the God I'm theorising, would we be better off without him?

    Maybe this God is the only one there is, imagine that?
  8. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    But "he opened his eyes one day" does not address the question of "who designed him".

    eg. Who designed his eyes to open?
  9. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

    Well you are assuming that something existed before God, why?
  10. gmilam Valued Senior Member

    You are assuming that something existed before the universe, why?
  11. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

    How did you conclude that?
  12. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Not an assumption. The premise of the thread. It is a given - by the OP- for argument's sake.
  13. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    There is no god and there is no designer in the reality of an eternal universe.
    God creator or designer are all un necessary and there is better fiction now ... and the idea of a creator is so yesterday.

  14. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member


    All these perfect measurements chance.
  15. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    I wish this were a complete sentence.
    I think I know what you're saying, but I can't be sure. If I interpreted it correctly, you are under a misapprehension.
  16. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    What are you talking about?
    What perfect measurements?
  17. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    I think this is the old Creationist wag of 'So, you think the universe just happened to be created perfect for life, and that humans brains evolved just by chance and 13 billion years?'

    But I can't tell from mere sentence fragments.
  18. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    Thanks for that.

    But he must know as I have told him many times...that the universe is eternal and as such there was no creation and no creator..how could there be a creator when the universe is eternal.....the fact that I have said such is ample authority for the correctness of the eternal universe...why would I think something that is not correct?...it has always been the eternal universe and the idea that there is an entity who is eternal who somehow popped out of eternity to create a finite universe is just demonstratably wrong and entirely unbelievable.

    If one thinks things are perfect it may be that the universe has existed for an eternity and so there has been more than ample time for near perfect to arise.

    If one were to claim that a mythical entity has made a perfect universe that is a claim that clearly is wrong...there are many things that are far from perfect.

    Even the good book is full of mistakes and errors...hardley perfect.

    When one embraces the eternal universe the very idea of there being a creator can be seen as no more than a silly made up nonsense story with absolutely nothing in support or and we find there is nothing to give rise to such a crazy notion in the first place other than attempts by humans to use astrology to manufacture made up human gods...laughable really....but that is what history shows...those are the facts believers cant even look at...but they are the facts.

  19. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

    Seriously someone is trotting out the line "the Universe is perfect for us"?

    If we lived on a grain of sand in the Sahara, it's very problematic there is another grain of sand which would be suitable for us

    And that's the solid stuff

    Anyone thinking the vast expanse of space between the microscopic (relatively speaking) speck of dust, and another speck, suitable for us to exist?

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  20. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

    And when it rarely does rain in the Sahara, the water fits the puddles perfectly.
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  21. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    I wonder about the folk that say that sort of thing.

    Consider this.

    They invariably say there is no life elsewhere which is an indication from that approach there is only one place in the universe where life can exist...hardley perfect and really not made exclusively for humans.

    So from that approach they fail to grasp that there has been a great waste of space☺.

    They (my strawman believers) fail to consider little things like the black death or humans propensity for warfare.

    Neither approach perfect.

    Although one thing that I find a statement of perfection and indeed evidence of a designer...think of legs...all legs on all animals are always long enough to reach the ground.
    Clearly evidence of creation and given their inability for original thought I expect they will pinch my idea and incorporate it in their nonsense that a creator could exist in an eternal universe.

    The question that never leaves me however is...why have so many humans been giving brains but are incapable of rational thought and let baseless superstition be the basis for their distorted understanding of everything.

    There is no foundation upon which all this god nonsense has been based and how folk can believe such made up superstition indicates certainly that many brains are far less than perfect.
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019
  22. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    I recall that that is the quintessential refutation of the 'perfectly tuned universe'. To wit:

    "How is it possible that the depressions in the ground were formed so perfectly as to exactly fit the puddles that will fill them? Surely the depressions were designed for the puddles to exist!"

    Nicely played.
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  23. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

    The measurements that govern our daily life from a cosmic point of view. Gravity, perfect moon, perfect sun, perfect distances, accurate star designs that inspired astrologers, the possibility of buying a £100 second hand telescope, and observing Mars, and being able to question how? Why?. Pretty neat. What I meant was, play the devil's advocate sometimes to test your beliefs. That is when you'll start to learn.

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