Who won the war of 1812?

Discussion in 'History' started by Syzygys, Oct 12, 2011.

  1. Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

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    Now instead of looking it up on Wiki, let's ask those who might have actually heard about this war.

    Yesterday I saw a documentary about it, and at the end historians disagreed who actually won it. They seemed to agreee that the native Americans were the true losers of it. (including Tecumseh, well, he did die in it)

    So who won it and why???
     
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  3. nietzschefan Thread Killer Valued Senior Member

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    Canada won and Louisiana(Brits) lost.
     
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  5. kx000 Valued Senior Member

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    The United States?
     
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  7. Telemachus Rex Protesting Mod Stupidity Registered Senior Member

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    Like many wars, there was no clear winner and loser. The British and the Americans both lost men and money fighting that war, and neither gained anything from one another. It's a classic case of both sides returning to the "status quo ante bellum."

    The Brits could have kicked our ass in that war, mind you, except for the fact that we were, at most, a distraction from their "real" war against Napoleon. As such they couldn't dedicate their full military to the war effort against us. Once their fight with Napoleon was (temporarily) over, they had no need to continue fighting us (and America was not a tempting target for invasion since British holding in the Caribbean were worth far more than all the output of the United States). There was some push to "reclaim" their lost territory, but the American War of Independence was lost 30 years prior, so few of the non-elderly in Britain had a strong sentimental attachment to the notion of teaching us rebels a lesson.

    I certainly do think that the U.S. was justified in going to war in that case, and the the U.S. largely achieved its goals in the Treaty of Ghent, but I think we spent a lot of blood and treasure and our goals were largely "Stop kicking us!" so it's hard to call that a rousing "win."

    I wouldn't bother picking a winner or a loser and am therefore prone to thinking of it as a draw.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2011
  8. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    Does England own America? Do you see a British flag on any flagpoles in America? I guess that should be the answer.
     
  9. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    Well, in a defensive war the defender need merely survive to win. (Sun Tzu or Klauswitz, possibly.)
     
  10. Telemachus Rex Protesting Mod Stupidity Registered Senior Member

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    That's the thing...the British were fighting the war defensively until 1814 (with the Americans invading British territory in Canada), when Napoleon was exiled to Elba. Once Napoleon was gone, they wanted to end it decisively, and they turned more aggressive; but the War of 1812 was never about the reconquest of America for the British.

    The war started because the Brits were supporting indian tribes that stood in the way of westward expansion, blocking trade in the Atlantic and impressing American sailors into the British Navy. The British weren't itching to invade though, and their support of the natives was not clearly aimed at screwing with us...to some extent it was just making nice because the British didn't want wars with the natives in Canada and wanted to keep them as allies in case an American invasion of Canada was ever launched.

    And...guess what...America took the opportunity to try to seize some of Canada. While it seems unlikely that permanent annexation of Canada was a war goal, America was decidedly expansionistic and it's unclear our complaints about arming the natives were really very strong (except that they were arming people living on land we wanted to eventually settle, and that was ipso facto bad for us).

    It's not entirely cut and died that we were merely "defending" ourselves and the British solely the "aggressors." We had good cause to declare war, imo, but it was a complicated situation.

    In the end the war settled little. The trade blockades ended because the British war with the French ended. Impressment ended for the same reason. The War of 1812 had nothing to do with those, and those were the most direct claims we had for war.

    What America did win was a promise from the British to stop trading arms with natives in Michigan and northern Ohio, which ended any hope the natives had of defending their claims on that land.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2011
  11. Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

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    How many times America attacked Canada? 3 times and they were fought off. That should be the answer.

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  12. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    It was a tie. But as was mentioned earlier the native americans lost in that they got kicked out of the midwest after this war.
     
  13. Shogun Bleed White and Blue! Valued Senior Member

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    Canada won, not that it should be shock to anyone

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  14. 420Joey SF's Incontestable Pimp Valued Senior Member

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  15. Nobody Suspended Indefinitely Registered Senior Member

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    As a Canadian, I will say that the victory goes to the Canukians
     
  16. Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

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    Just for fun's sake, Canada as a country didn't exist back then... So they couldn't have won....
     
  17. nietzschefan Thread Killer Valued Senior Member

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    British North America won then. Thanks to Canadian Militias.
     
  18. AnWulf Registered Member

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    It was a military draw. No territory was loss or gained. Neither side surrendered, they both agreed to stop fighting.

    For the US, it is often called the 2nd War of Independence. The Brits were still in the NW Territories and stirring up the Indian tribes. The Brits were grabbing American sailors with impunity and, naturally, blockading France and thus interfering with our trade. In effect, they were bullying the US.

    However, there wasn't unanimity. The New England states almost seceded and were likely more of hinderance than a help with the battles in Canada. Had New England been more supportive, maybe the battles in Canada would have gone better.

    In the end, one must look at the objectives. The US won, in the sense that it achieved the most important objectives ... The Brits finally left the NW Territories after several stinging defeats. The US Navy, small as it was, gained respect. With France's defeat, the Brits stopped impressing seamen and lifted the blockade. Arguably, the US gain a measure of respect and self-respect by standing up to a world power that had been bullying them.

    The fact that the Battle of New Orleans took place after the treaty had been signed only put icing on the cake. It firmly secured our borders and gave the US another level of respect.
     

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