The thing is, the government doesn't take your money. When the government has it, it's still yours. You tell them how to spend it. That's what representative Democracy is about.
Really? I don't recall telling them to spend it on wars, bailouts, and a welfare state. So, then, this is the solution: we can choose how much we pay in taxes and where it goes, individually. That's fair: I'll give you that.
That's where the representative part comes in. We all choose who will makes those decisions. That's the only fair way.
Nah, then it's unfair, if we can do it another way; and we can! It's a good idea, too: we each, individually, choose how much we feel like paying in taxes and where our money gets to go.
So when I show how we can have choice, you get mad? Because you WANT it to be exploitative. I knew it all along. Even though we can have it so that we all can choose, you still don't want that.
We do have choice, it's call voting. I want to build a good society, not the kind of society that existed for hundreds of years before this great experiment called the United States.
Why are people against universal health care? Cost vs: Bennifits. There is no such thing as free health care, it all has to be paid for.
There is such a thing as paying for it, and not getting it. That's the current setup. It isn't their decision, often. Why are you calling that disgraceful, anyway - it's exactly the situation being promoted and advertised as the American way, the free market way, what every true American wants instead of socialism: you walk in with your medical condition, price the services offered, and pick the one that best suits your needs and ability to pay. I mean, there was no problem there, none of the common little complicating circumstances: he wasn't in a coma, he was mobile and could take his business elsewhere, he was an adult and mentally competent, the situation was comprehensible to a layman, he was receiving full and accurate information, he had time to make up his mind, his life wasn't on the line, he wasn't in great pain, that was about as close as one can get to free market medical care in real life. What's the problem with it?
Obviously, in a free market goods and services are don't have any costs associated with them. That's why it's called a "free market." Duh.
But often it is. It's called pro bono. They just don't file the paperwork necessary for billing. Doctors treat patients as a form of charity a lot. For what reason do you believe I prefer healthcare being served as a free market commodity, if that is the implication..? Not sure I'm following you.
And often it isn't - reattaching fingers would require tying up an operating room's full resources and several people for quite a while, and doctors as employees of modern health care organizations don't necessarily control the paperwork or billing decisions.
The fact that single payer health systems deny life saving care everyday, Tarceva for example, seems to have escaped you. The real difference is often times those patients are not informed of more expensive, but life saving treatments, because the government officials deemed those treatments as not being cost effective and don't want to "confuse" anyone.
Actually in the current system it is all to often, getting it and not paying for it. The simple answer to insurance companies who refuse to pay for covered conditions is to just make it absolutely illegal for them to do so, we don't need a whole new system, just make it impossible for insurance companies to refuse payment on their policies. Illegal Aliens, and those who choose not to carry insurance, go to emergency rooms where they cannot be refused care, and then run up bills that they have no intention of ever paying. That cost has to be passed on, and it is passed on in increased cost to you, with both increased cost for services, and higher taxes from the government. Report estimates county's illegal immigrant cost at $256 million ... Sep 8, 2007 ... Supervisors sought the study in the hope of presenting federal officials with a bill for the costs of illegal immigration in the border ... www.nctimes.com/.../article_a5e39c0e-7a15-5f02-bde8-182ec511a8c2.html - ALIPAC - Illegal Aliens cost Florida Hospitals $100 Million Apr 23, 2009 ... money campaigns cost illegal immigration Florida Hospitals have to write off $100 million dollars in unpaid medical bills because of illegal ... www.alipac.us/article4161.html Immigrants Cost Neb Town 500K In Unpaid Medical (illegal aliens ... Apr 23, 2009 ... Immigrants Cost Neb Town 500K In Unpaid Medical (illegal aliens, economy, ... are paying out $300000 to $500000 a year to cover unpaid medical bills from ... www.city-data.com/.../illegal.../428250-immigrants-cost-neb-town-500k-unpaid.html - State holds bag for record $1.2 billion in unpaid bills - Chicago ... About $500 million in medical bills are piled up at the state Public Aid ... Although the practice may not be illegal...letting this problem build. ... If left unchecked, the cost of unpaid bills could end up being passed onto other. ... www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P2-4103394.html -
Another source of rising costs, that would disappear with single payer or some such setup. Something else that disappears with single payer. Are we beginning to get a clue to the reasons US health care is twice as expensive for 2/3 the coverage? That's already in force, has been for decades.
ok buff ill give you an example of a former co worker who had a pre exsisting condintion.. he was an elderly man who had been working for this company for 35years.. last year he got laid off.. obviously his medical went with it.. he had well over 500k in his retirement. a house that was paid for, everything you need to live a good retirement.. he tried picking up medical.. no one would pick him up, he had 2 choices, pay for it himself out of pocket.. or die.. choice is obvious.. how is he now? alive for the time being. lost all of his retirement. his house everything everything is gone he doesnt have a cent to his name and is living with relatives.. all this because of a pre exsisting condition.. thing that pisses me off is the only people who are bitching about it are heatlhy and employed i gaurentee if you gave all of thoes people a pre exsisting contition and got laid off they would jump ships from anti to pro before you could get a whisper out.. they way it stands now.. if you have a pre exsisting condition get laid off. your f@#%d no matter how many years of hard work and paying your bills ontime you were
for thoes of you who are against it http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2010/02/critics_say_39_hike_in_health.html comming to a health insurance agency near you.. no reason for the increase either
Here is a site that lists the immediate benefits of heatlhcare reform as proposed by the Democrats: http://pingree.house.gov/issues/healthcare/14-immediate-effects-of-reform.shtml
