Why do uneducated people think that GMOs are okay?

Discussion in 'Biology & Genetics' started by typical animal, Jan 7, 2013.

  1. typical animal Registered Member

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    In every discussion on GMOs and on what we should do about the big corporations there seems to be a few of these "village idiots" who comes along to say:

    "hay guise, it's okay because the gmos are fine, we've been eating gmos for hundreds of years, you must NO NOTHING about scince lol"

    ....and from then on the debate gets ruined with stupidity. Genetically engineered modifications, such as arbitrary insertions and deletions of huge strands of DNA, do things with are simply impossible to do with conventional breeding even if you were given millions of years to breed this way or that... literally infecting the organisms with foreign DNA and trying about 200 times until one is forcibly taken up. The idea that you could just randomly insert and delete DNA like this, going from one kingdom to another, and it would all turn out okay is just bonkers. We have not co-evolved with randomness for billions of years. Where do you think humans came from? Why do you think we're like this??? Only by co-evolution with these other organisms. GMO scientists do NOT know exactly what they're doing with one gene to change colour, that is ridiculous. Huge strands of DNA get moved about and then the species is put through some tests and if nothing bad shows up it's decided they are allowed to go through.... never mind the fact that these are SUBOPTIMAL. They are inferior in some ways that may be quite subtle and make it through tests. Randomness =/= co-evolution. subtle =/= hippy nonsense. derp derp derp derp, it's not that hard a concept.

    Dogs are something that have been hugely bred for example, but they retain the same basic structure and system and instinct and almost everything of the common wolf and can practically all interbreed. Wheat has been grown to be tall, enlarging or downsizing a particular plant is quite easy to do with breeding but there are typically limits on how far you can go with this without the species falling apart - eg. the Great Dane is pretty much as large a dog as you're able to get without highly chronic problems. Are some people really so clueless and uneducated that they believe that this is ANYTHING like genetically modifying an organism? Are these people all 17 years old? Where do they come from?

    You don't understand anything about evolution if you believe that such ad hoc arbitrary instructions put into organisms would simply make no difference greater than spraying them to give them a different colour. The pro-GMO scientists do know there are dangers and it's not "just the same as regular food lolz". No person who even considers that idea should ever be allowed to speak about science again for as long as they live. When it comes to risk factors, OBVIOUSLY the corporations are going to take risks with the environment, that's only natural. Again even the pro-GMO scientists accept this.

    The key point is that DNA is self-replicating. There is no going back. Once a GMO is out there it can cause incredible devastation. If anyone was able to modify and release any GMO into the world.... which is becoming more a reality by the day..... it would just be curtains. Just the same as if just anyone was easily able to make an atomic bomb.



    But this topic isn't about trying to get into another stupid debate about GMOs, it's asking why uneducated people think this to begin with. Who gives them this idea? Where does it come from? Is there some pro-GMO propaganda in the US we don't get in europe?

    I know where religious stuff comes from (bibles, churches etc.), I'm just honestly trying to understand the mindset of these individuals.


    I really mean all of this, this topic is NOT about arguing GMOs but rather discussing a mindset, a phenomenon. I am legitimately NOT trying to attack or insult anyone, if you are one of those people this topic is not for you.
     
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  3. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Same reason morons are deathly afraid of them I guess.
     
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  5. kwhilborn Banned Banned

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    You answered yourself in thread title.
     
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  7. scheherazade Northern Horse Whisperer Valued Senior Member

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    We are a society that has abdicated all decision making to government and the only decision that a decreasing percentage participate in is possibly voting for which individuals/parties fomr the government. Governments may set policy in some areas but the perception is that it is economics that truly rules the day.

    When did it become legal to patent seeds?

    That took some clever influence peddling.

    The average individual is so busy trying to make ends meet and not get caught up in the endless bureaucracy that governs every aspect of our lives that they really don't even think to question these things. We act from the assumption that government has our best interests at heart.

    It's always about the money. The answer to your question may be found be questioning who stands to benefit from GMO's. While you are at it, take a close look at the 'independent research' or better yet, try to get funding to follow up on it.

    Proprietary interests may prove troublesome.

    I've worked in retail grocery for the last 7+ years and the shenanigans I have witnessed regarding how the big corporations choose to label their products plays into all of this. Pollyanna has become seriously cynical, lol... If man made it, don't eat it.
     
  8. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

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    Since I think they are OK and I'm educated, I'm not sure how to respond.

    My grandfather liked them and he was uneducated....but as an uneducated farmer, what would he know

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  9. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

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    The OP obviously considers himself "educated." However, he's nothing but a prime example of the saying "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing." The more he runs his mouth the more obvious it becomes.
     
  10. typical animal Registered Member

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    You know I've always found that to be a plain stupid saying, quite apart from our disagreement. A little knowledge isn't a dangerous thing except in special circumstances that you're thinking of, usually a little knowledge of the important topics/concepts is the best thing to have. No knowledge can be a dangerous thing, a lot of knowledge can be a dangerous thing, it's a ridiculous saying. The only times it works is in specific instances where you test to see if it works and if it does you seem to consider it as another example of its truth. It's like saying "relying on your car can be a dangerous thing" and pointing to car accidents as examples of it. Technically it's right but it's not making any point or saying anything, it's nonsense.

    I don't know whether it's that you don't genuinely believe in science (your primordial instinct can not imagine such a thing as occurring so therefore it must not), you have little knowledge of evolution (hint: we are not evolved to deal with randomness in foods), you can't imagine scientific progress making these methods more widely available and therefore just anybody will be able to create and let anything escape into the wild.... I really don't know what it is. How or why you have these beliefs that everything is going to be okay.
     
  11. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Don't you think that plants and animals can eventually adapt to whatever new genetic information comes into it's environment? GMOs could accelerate evolution in the same way that increased mutation can speed up evolutionary change.
     
  12. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Sure. We just might not like the adaptions they cause. (Extinctions, for example.)
     
  13. typical animal Registered Member

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    Exactly. With how it's going the world is soon going to consist of bizarre genetic soup nothing like humans, mammals or vertebrates.
     
  14. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    What if it's worth it in terms of increasing food production? Gene exchange isn't new in nature.
     
  15. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    ?? Uh, how is that going to happen? Massive mass extinctions have happened before; there was no "bizarre genetic soup" result. Some organisms did better and held their niche, some didn't and went extinct.
     
  16. typical animal Registered Member

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    You're saying making all organisms resembling humans (permanently) extinct relatively soon might be worth it for slightly increasing food production now? Nothing in the world is going to be solved by more food production, even doubling food production would not help since the population of some countries is rising at an exponential level already and will only rise more with more food.

    This time it will be very different, especially if humans continue to release new GMOs after entire ecosystems have begun to collapse.
     
  17. leopold Valued Senior Member

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    and the problem is?
    society as a whole is going to have to make the choice sooner or later.
    i'm afraid nature will lose.

    edit:
    about the OP,
    i honestly believe GMO foods will be a godsend when our population exceeds 10 times what it is now.
    yes, we'll get there.
     
  18. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Ah, another apocalypse.

    Again, I wouldn't worry too much. We have seen 90%+ extinctions before and they didn't turn us into "bizarre genetic soup." We have irreversibly altered huge parts of the genomes of food crops and we haven't been turned into "bizarre genetic soup." Heck, we've been eating some of these for centuries.

    There are definitely risks from GMO's, as there are risks from any human activity. There are risks to NOT using GMO's. Such risks must be weighed carefully so good decisions can be made. And as with almost every other area of human endeavor, the extremist attitudes on both sides generally just detract from intelligent discussion.
     
  19. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Do you care to explain how GMOs would lead to extinction?
     
  20. typical animal Registered Member

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    Well you never know, maybe if we hold off for as long as we can we'll have a nuclear war or something that would would set such research back decades and give our descendants another chance.

    This is what I don't get about the "pro-GMO" people - the idea that "it's going to happen anyway so there's no point trying to stop it"....... there is nothing else to life. And the longer that humans exist the better 1) as a end in itself and 2) to give time for where we might survive after all. For example by using the seed banks.

    It's like if you're flying off a cliff in a car, you can at least try to do something. Are you going to sit back and relax and say: "meh, I'm probably going to die anyway so what's the point in even trying". Something might happen.
     
  21. leopold Valued Senior Member

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    instead of making plants more resistant to pesticides i think we need to rethink the strategy.
    for example, develop an organism that when fertilized turns into an orange, or an apple.
     
  22. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    No, it would be much better to slow down and carefully take the road down, instead of choosing either of the extremes of flying off the cliff - or banning cars and roads just in case someone flies off a cliff in a car.
     
  23. leopold Valued Senior Member

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    i seriously pity the nation that launches a nuclear attack.
    rogue asteroid no doubt, or maybe some kind of virus.
    the latter could have a devastating effect on humanity.
    another chance at what?
    the same future we are facing?
    the corporations themselves must take the responsibility when its due.
    they know for a fact they have been polluting our aquafirs for years with some of the deadliest toxins known to man.
    this GMO research could go a long way in solving that problem.
    i don't consider myself pro anything.
    that's the thing, you and i are not the deciders.
    society is.
    good luck with telling the people "stop screwing each other".
     

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