# Why is the symbol for life and luck hated so much?

Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by Thor, May 14, 2004.

1. ### XevRegistered Senior Member

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Isn't that a Daoist symbol denoting the union of opposites forming the Dao?
I don't recall ever hearing that the swastika was used in that way - North-European philosophy is usually less dualistic than most.

3. ### HasteinWelcome To KampucheaRegistered Senior Member

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Well Xev, since you can only communicate in 'black metal'-speak I'll give you some Varg:

"What I mainly respond to is that Norwegians talk about Yin and Yang, while we have a symbol which accurately means the same in our own culture, the symbol shown here:

(picture of a square, with nine X's forming a cross with four stylized swastikas facing opposite directions)

I saw this symbol for the 1st time on jewelry from the Vikings, but I have seen it on stuff from the Bronze Age. For lack of other names I will call
the symbol the "Cross of Odin". It's the same as four swastikas, two rotating against the clock (the dark powers), two with the clock (the light
powers), it is balance, as in Yin and Yang. A swastika rotating with the clock is a sun cross, a swastika rotating against the clock is Thor's
hammer, Mjollnir. The sun is a life giving power. Thor's hammer is the weapon which crushes the house of the Zhsir's enemies. The weapon is the dark powers. The destructive powers we are so dependant on, as much as we are the sun's life giving powers. We need to protect us with the dark powers (the weapon) as much as we need to grow with the light giving powers.
There are four swastikas and in the middle there is a cross. Two would be the balance, but then where would the swastikas deeper meaning come from?
There are four seasons, two life giving (summer and spring) and two destructive seasons (winter and autumn), two feminine & two masculine, four elements in nature, etc...
Those who remember the article about the meaning behind the swastika/sun wheel will with ease see that here there are four swastikas and a cross in the middle which means the same as a single sun wheel, with evil in the middle (the cross) and the four bodies (swastikas) around it.
Why then do these young Norwegians talk about the Chinese Yin and Yang? We have a better symbol ourselves here from our own culture, more than a thousand years old. It is thousands of years old and we don't recognize it?"

5. ### XevRegistered Senior Member

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Hastein:
KVLT!!!!1!!!!

Varg's perspective is - interesting, but I disagree somewhat. From what I know of Norse myth, they rarely evaluated things in terms of good/bad, holy/unholy, masculine/feminine, dark/light, etc. The boundaries of their definitions were much more fluid.
Instead they accepted that a single thing can have a dual nature - indeed a multifaceted nature - without any necessary relationship between the dual sides.
Therefore, you could have Loki, an "evil" God by our standards, as a God who simply IS. He's helpful, he's malignant. Or the giants, who are sometimes friends and sometimes enemies of the Aesir.

The closest thing you have to dualistic interpretations of the world is the Aesir and the Vanir, but even they intermingled quite freely.

7. ### HasteinWelcome To KampucheaRegistered Senior Member

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You are correct, such as Thor murdering giants for no reason. From what I got out of it, he is simply interpretating the universe in different facets, not so much making a judgement about them. All forces are helpful, but according to the current situation, you can 'dualize' it as you say. I would agree that his usage is certainly misleading.

8. ### XevRegistered Senior Member

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Hastein:
That's true - and Varg's the last one to make negative judgements about destructiveness.
I guess I frown upon labelling forces as "creative" or "destructive", but I admit I do it myself - and that it's necessary.

9. ### rainbow__princess_4The Ashtray GirlRegistered Senior Member

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The nazi symbol is the life symbol reversed to mean death. They look totally different so its stupid for anyone to be confused. Besides i think it looks cools like a spider-web or something.

10. ### HasteinWelcome To KampucheaRegistered Senior Member

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379
Incorrect rainbow__princess_4, the Nazi swastika is the life swastika. Attempts have been made in the last few years to make it into the death swastika, but we all know a little better. As much as the media and the education system paints the Nazis as evil incarnate, their version of history is straight out of Hollywood. Were the nazis bad people? Yes they were, but they were people-just like you and me-and they deserve to be treated with respect- if not approval.

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same here

12. ### §outh§taris feeling causticRegistered Senior Member

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4,832
More on the crutch cross

Code:
http://www.falange.us/ourcross.htm

Last edited: May 15, 2004
13. ### HasteinWelcome To KampucheaRegistered Senior Member

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379

It's a little too easy to confuse the two.

14. ### XevRegistered Senior Member

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10,943
Hastein:
*Laughs*
The Nazis, responsible for the murder of some six million people, deserve to be treated with respect because they are - also people?

One can only assume that you think humans possess some innate quality making them deserving, for no reason but their humanity, of respect and decent treatement.

If the Nazis deserve any respect, it is because they had the coldness and the sheer balls to deny their humanity, not because they were humane.

15. ### HasteinWelcome To KampucheaRegistered Senior Member

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Perhaps I came off sounding sympathetic (in a rather cheesy way as well), this is not my intention. I am talking about the human face behind the 'robotic' minions of the regime. We often take for granted that the road to disaster is paved with good intentions. It is too easy to say that Nazis, Soviets, Iraqis, Vietnamese, North Koreans, Confederates, (Insert enemy here) were just demons without a soul- that they would purposely make the swastika into a symbol of hate and death because that is clearly what every German citizen wants. Anyway, the Nazis murdered about 20 million people, six million of them were Jews. Anyway, you're the one who listens to Burzum all the time, I wonder what YOUR intentions are.

16. ### XevRegistered Senior Member

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Hastein:
Allright, I'm sorry I misread you.

Right now, millions of Americans support the pointless slaughter of Iraqis for reasons that they do not wholly comprehend. They have supported their government when it has supported the most vile dictatorships in their name, and this behaviour is hardly exclusive to Americans. It's common in every era among any people.

I believe some hundreds of thousands were Gypsies and homosexuals, if you wish to be precise. I was referring to the Holocaust, which the ordinary German had some knowledge of, and little concern about.

My intentions do not support nor my sentiments wholly condone mechanical slaughter. Early Burzum is bleak, chill and incredibly powerful - I "enjoy" it.
This doesn't mean I support Varg's worldview wholly.

I might reverse the question -
You show an enthusiasm for a past era, you show disgust with the modern era and its celebration of weakness, you are elitist, intelligent and you read Redbeard - and yet you are frighteningly eager to have your views understood by the sheeple, and lament the demise of Christian fripperies such as the nuclear family and traditional mores. You're a racist but not a racist, a fascist but not a fascist, a misogynist but not a misogynist, an elitist but not an elitist -

17. ### Dr Lou NaticUnnecessary SurgeonRegistered Senior Member

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About the gypsies I remember seeing a documentary about hitlers wife and they had old footage of her playing with gypsy children, she had like a notebook and she was apparently observing their behaviour to see if they could fit in with nazi society. After taking some notes and evaluating them she came to the conclusion they were filthy animals and she had them gassed.
It was so wierd because she seemed really friendly in the footage, like some lady running a day care centre smiling and holding up toys for the kids. Little did they know she was testing them to see if they were adequate human beings or not.

Is this a true story or is the history channel run by jews?

18. ### XevRegistered Senior Member

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Are you sure it was Hitler's wife and not some other Nazi woman? Hitler didn't marry Braun until the day he blew his head off, and she wasn't the smartest woman or one the Nazis made much use of.

19. ### Dr Lou NaticUnnecessary SurgeonRegistered Senior Member

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5,574
Yeah I'm not sure if it was his wife but it was a fairly young blonde woman in the footage.
I wouldn't even be able to remember exactly what the whole documentary was about, it was years ago when i saw that, I just assumed hitlers wife.
I thought it was atleast his girlfriend or something.

20. ### Avatarsmoking revolverValued Senior Member

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19,083
..or it's the jews

21. ### XevRegistered Senior Member

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It may have been Goering's wife, if memory serves she did that sort of thing. I recall vaugely hearing that...but not about Eva Braun.

http://www.auschwitz.dk/Braun.htm
I love the way Auschwitz.dk has flashing banner ads for a vacation site.

"Visit sunny Auschwitz! Bring plenty of suntan lotion, or else hit the showers..."

Sorry.

22. ### buffysRegistered LoserRegistered Senior Member

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1,624
heh.

Oddly, blatant consumerism like that sort of comforts me, it's that kind of stuff that reminds me how similar we all are. Everyone needs to eat.

23. ### alaindu hast michRegistered Senior Member

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1,179
"why is the symbol for life and luck hated so much?"