Why is the symbol for life and luck hated so much?

Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by Thor, May 14, 2004.

  1. Thor "Pfft, Rebel scum!" Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,326
    Herr Doktor Lunatik, as Xev pointed out Hitler did not have a wife. He had a long-term girlfriend. As far as my knowledge goes I do not know if he actually married her on the day of their death.

    Has anyone actually visited a concerntration camp? It feels really unearthly. I went to Belsen when I was four and I was scared out of my mind. It was so quiet, there were no animals, no noises...just the whispers of the people visiting there. And my wailing.

    Anyway, it looks like this thread has had some success, My Sexy Blue Feet had no idea of it's true meaning, that's gotta be a plus.

    I guess that people shouldn't really hate the swaztika itself but the whole 'flag' as that is what the nazi's represented.
     
  2. Guest Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. CounslerCoffee Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,997
    He did. Of course it only lasted for an hour... because he shot himself and she took cyanide. Their bodies were burned shortly afterwards. What a romantic way to spend your honey moon.
     
  4. Guest Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Thor "Pfft, Rebel scum!" Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,326
    Did they not have a child also?
     
  6. Guest Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. moementum7 ~^~You First~^~ Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,598
    Wow.
    I did'nt read your post for so long because of its length and my short attention span.
    But it was like one of those old black and white movies you had to watch in school. Thinking it was going to suck, but after it was over you thoroughly enjoyed it.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    That is amazing.
    I had no idea whatsoever.
    Fuck you guys who think I am ignorant because I didn't know this.
    That seriously pisses me off.
    You guys are just as ignorant for thinkning everyone should "just" know what every symbol, label, picture, word, or any other symbol that has come into existence might have more than one meaning.
    Like I have the time to research the 3,000,000 some odd symbols out there to find their original meaning.....sheesh!

    O.k., now that i have gotten that out, thanks for the input Thor.
    That is definitely too bad that symbol has been tarnished.
    It definitely has a powerful influence in its simplicity.

    However, I beleive it useful to remember that it is not the symbol itself that is so important, but the concept it is implied to represent.
    Why not create your own symbol that represents your own concept of what you beleive the swastika represents. Instead of conforming.
    Or is it important that alot of others have used it already?
    Come on Mighty Thor!!!!!
    Pave your own way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    SIEGHAIL!!!!

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    Thanks again for the info.
     
  8. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,083
    swastika or firecross as it is called here is so tied with my culture that the idea of changing it is ridiculous
    you don't just change one of the most ancient symbols on this planet, not a trade mark
     
  9. moementum7 ~^~You First~^~ Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,598
    Why not?
    Custom, tradition, conservative, fear of the new?
    That is a whole other context.
    As for the United States and Canada, it has quite the opposite meaning.
    Despite what its true and original meaning may be.
    Having a pet may symbolize companionship, responsibilty, love for animals and nature, but once that rotweiler tears apart your child, that rotweiler may no longer symbolize any of those things to you, no matter what anyone else thinks, or where that dog originated from.

    It is one thing to try and change the mind of another intellectualy, it is another thing entirely to try and change ones nuero-associations.
    That is, what they have linked up in their nervous system to a particular situation or symbol for that matter.

    You may know intellectualy that drinking booze,smoking, or eating chocolate is bad for you, but do you still do it?
    Of course you do, why, because in your gut(nuero-associations) the pleasurable associations of eating the chocolate and drinking alcholhol is stronger than your intelectual associations of not eating them.

    Until the motivation or a point of desperation is reached, your neuro-associations will continue to guide your actions and view towards a topic or situation.
    Simple.

    Bottom line is, how is reintroducing this symbol back into the mainstream going to benefit most people.
    Most people are to busy just trying to make it in the world, paying bills and going through the motions of everyday life to be concerned with a particular symbol.
    I think this is a great topic, and obviously most people on this forum still have at least some motivation to contiue learning about different topics in life, but we are a small part of the population.
    If you are willing to explain and inform, and feel it is in your best interest to educate the public on such a topic, right on.
    Like Thor is doing, I for one appreciate it.
    As for the rest of America and other cultures where the swastika is not a basis of any productive developments, it is another story.
    You say that the symbol has some relevance to your history and sense of identity, fine, I respect that.
    As for me, I am quite the individualist, so,hence my stance on the issue.
     
  10. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,083
    Tell the catholics to change their cross for a condom
     
  11. Hastein Welcome To Kampuchea Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    379
    I have an interest in the past, but I am certainly not nostalgic for it. When I use words like 'modern' I am talking about the present state, showing that there are alternative paths to how things are done. You are incorrect in asserting that I disdain the nuclear family and traditional morals- I support traditionalism- it is the fabric of my personal world. I freely question these institutions because it is healthy to question anything. I am elitist because I HAVE TO BE. I cannot allow decadence to take away everything in my life: my family, my friends, my culture, my wealth, my freedoms. I have to be disciplinary, because my parents raised me to be respectful, hardworking, and creative and it paid off. I am the remnant of a bygone era, when respect and dignity towards other human beings meant something, when it was good to choose what was best instead of what is "open-minded" or novel. It frustrates me that others want to impose THEIR political and moral values on me because the system I live under treats THEM so poorly- they have no responsibility or respect for ANYTHING. I read Ragnar because I enjoy researching all modes of thought, instead of wasting my time condemning or praising certain philosophies- leave that to Republicans and Democrats. If someone went out and stabbed someone, and then wrote a book about it, you can bet I'll be the first one to read it. Have you ever heard of Artraud? I am not a political fascist- I am a cultural fascist. I am eager to spread my ideas because I am compulsive. I know very well that they don't care what some guy over the internet says, I just can't help it.

    I am certainly not a misogynist or a racist, and where you got that from I have no idea. I read authors that may hold these views, but they are not my own. I have always welcomed an equal place for women in this world. But I admit that femininity has taken a dominant role in this culture and that I dislike it. When I say feminine I am talking about a gender role- not a real biological behavior of females. Femininity is a social construct- the idea of a docile, submissive, and braindead woman who cares only about external reality and pacifism. If by racist you mean I beleive races exist, then I would qualify as a racist, but I do not hate anyone for being a different race- that's irrational nonsense. I can't even be sure that races exist (DON'T turn this into a race discussion like the other threads

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    ). I can understand the perspective of racists just as I can understand the perspective of communists. I am always on a quest for knowledge, and taboos, morals, and popularity will not get in the way of me discovering the truth about anything.
     
  12. moementum7 ~^~You First~^~ Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,598
    I am not sugesting that one change the symbol.
    If a particular groups identity and/or security is dependant upon a symbol and not the concept it is intended to imply, fine.


    The symbol is just that, it is only a symbol.
    Symbols or words in themselves are meaningless and mostly arbitrary. They are auditory or visual symbols of concepts, which contains the meaning. A definition applies to a concept, not a word or symbol. A symbol or word is a name or image given to a concept. It isn't the concept itself. A word or symbol is only meaningful if it has a concept, which in turn, has a definition. Without these, a word is just a noise, and a symbol a pretty picture.

    The primary use of a word or symbol is in concept building. Additionally it can be used for communication. This purpose is secondary, though. Communication requires clarity and understanding. Before communication can occur, concepts must be formed. Concepts are not only required for communication, though. They are used to acquire knowledge, and to use it to act purposefully. This is the primary purpose of words/symbols.


    In a metaphorical sense, I am saying, .
    Instead of pushing that old beat up, rusty outdated car out of the garage, trying to find parts that are no longer built,
    why not build a new car, with new parts, with new standards, taking advantage of new breakthroughs, from the ground up. Something to genuinely call our own and symbolize our own struggle.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2004
  13. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,083
    you don't understand it, yes?
    swastika or firecross holds it's ultimate meaning to me just in the form as it is today. and it's embeded into my culture
    in america it's different /sneers
    --
    the age is not new, the same age, same passions, same people
    technology changes - big deal - it always changes
     
  14. moementum7 ~^~You First~^~ Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,598
    Yes I do understand, I have expressed that idea of yours twice now,
    and because I know your level of intellectual development,
     
  15. moementum7 ~^~You First~^~ Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,598
    Yes I do understand, I have expressed that idea of yours twice now,
    and because I have a hunch, I will explain it a third time, IF THE SYMBOL HOLDS A CONNECTION TO YOUR SENSE OF IDENTITY AND HAS A PRODUCTIVE BASIS IN YOUR PAST CULTURE, FINE.
    I understand that.
    I'll awnser your next retort in advance.IF THE SYMBOL HOLDS A CONNECTION TO YOUR SENSE OF IDENTITY AND HAS A PRODUCTIVE BASIS IN YOUR PAST CULTURE, FINE.
    I appreciate your interest.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2004
  16. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,083
    not really, I didn't bother to fully read through your posts
     
  17. moementum7 ~^~You First~^~ Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,598
    I changed that, too much coffee on my end, my apologies.
     
  18. Igor Trip Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    137
    I heard somewhere that the Indian Red cross wanted to use the swaztika (red and white of course) but where persuaded against it. That's a shame because it was an opportunity to regain its old meaning.
     

Share This Page