Why most people is afraid of death?

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by Saint, Jan 23, 2020.

  1. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Agree, usually in the context of asking for proof (evidence) of ANYTHING existing from the spiritual world

    As a materialists
    PHILOSOPHY
    a person who supports the theory that nothing exists except matter and its movements and modifications
    Definition from Oxford Languages

    I await the moment when those whom believe in a spiritual aspect within our materialistic realm put SOMETHING on the work bench which is capable of being examined

    Never happened so far and never will since nothing spiritual exist in our materialistic realm (nothing OBJECTIVE)

    Go through the thousands of spiritual items purporting to show proof (a spiritual aspect exist) and extract said proof for examination on afore mentioned bench

    I would disagree. Pony up your evidence please and a fruitful discussion shall be yours

    Not so. I did point out if one afterlife was possible no philosophical rationale why hundreds could not exist

    And this is KNOWN by yourself exactly how please?

    My thoughts on Buddhism run along the lines of the components of my body, after I die, will be recycled and some may end up in other life forms. The other life form will not inherit any aspect of me only the atoms which were once part of my make up

    My understanding of ALL religions is that they are a human made up story construct designed to explain some aspect of the world, which the story constructor has no idea about, but the made up story makes the story teller appear knowledgeable

    Materialism is not a religion sorry

    Which would rob it of said belief aspect. One down, millions more unsustainable beliefs out there to bring to reality or expose as fake

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    A possible way toward a believable belief

    Care to write a mini Reader's Digest version in this thread?

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  3. C C Consular Corps - "the backbone of diplomacy" Valued Senior Member

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    I occasionally wonder what someone means by "awareness" when they treat it as distinct from consciousness (as in the quote at bottom, and I noticed you "apparently" doing in another thread several days, if not a couple of weeks, ago).

    The only way I can make sense of that is as a reference to manifestations occurring, but minus any cognition or understanding of them. IOW, having more to do with an ontological classification of phenomenal happenings ("showing", appearances, feeling) rather than a psychological one.

    Which is to say, the matter of a dead brain might exist to itself as primitive, disorganized experiences (manifestations), but there is no functioning memory system available anymore to identify such events as even random nonsense. As well the inability to validate that there is indeed "something" presenting itself (as a supposed alternative to materialism's "not even nothingness" following death -- what the non-conscious universe at large usually is to itself).

    Even if the person offers a different take on what they mean by "awareness", most likely I would still only be able to make sense of it being distinct from consciousness via the above (no cognition available).

    Which then tumbles off into the current-day confusion of how consciousness once implied both experience and the understanding of it. But since the dawn of Chalmers' hard problem, has often narrowed down to philosophers (and some scientists) treating it as a synonym of bare experience (rather than an umbrella concept of multiple properties or psychological features).

    http://www.philosopher.eu/texts/schopenhauer-atheist-idealist-visionary/

    "But note that awareness is not necessarily consciousness. Schopenhauer writes that the notion of consciousness without a brain is as nonsensical as the notion of digestion without a stomach. One can have desires without being conscious of them, as Freud later sought to develop."​
     
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  5. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    2 cents worth of possible meaning

    Being conscious is being awake and aware

    Consciousness is being awake and aware of being awake and aware

    awareness is I think much the same as being conscious but added to by actively being out there seeking what to make of the world instead of only knowing your being aware from inputs arriving

    Generating your own inputs

    I go with the following

    Annaka Harris poses the hard problem as the question of "how experience arise out of non-sentient matter"

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_problem_of_consciousness

    However I think how experience arise out of non-sentient matter
    is a fake hard problem

    All the component parts and systems have manifest themselves, over millennium, into the body and, inevitably it seems, to have grown from mere reflex reactions to thinking ABOUT THINKING

    Also adding to the fakeness said experience(s)
    are NOT being put forward to non-sentient matter

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    Last edited: Dec 10, 2021
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  7. C C Consular Corps - "the backbone of diplomacy" Valued Senior Member

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    Here, the inquiry applies to what HML (Holly-May Leslie) meant by awareness (primarily elsewhere in another thread). As well as beyond her, since there are others who seem to do the same (as indicated by the quote at the bottom of that post).

    Agree that they can be construed as similar, in that "awareness" could be subsumed by "consciousness" with respect to the latter traditionally treated as a broad category for various features.

    Which then prompts the original perplexity as to how an individual can declare that "awareness" is distinct from "consciousness" in some other manner other than being a hyponym of the latter. Especially with respect to suggesting awareness not requiring a functioning brain/body or an equivalent space alien organ or technological (AI) equivalent.

    There may be sub-disciplines, schools of thought, and personal viewpoints that define or employ the terms "awareness" and "consciousness" differently... But that, again, is what one is requesting clarification about to begin with, or expressing puzzlement about.

    I.e., "what existing specific orientation, or background theory, or practice, or field of inquiry, are you coming from?" -- "or what have you introduced yourself that distinguishes them so radically?".

    Which is cognition, or presented "images, sounds, tactile sensations, odors, etc" being identified or understood further by those brain processes dependent upon memory. (Or initially poised for such, if one has just awaken or snapped back to awareness.)

    Which is metacognition -- acknowledgement of, or having a higher level concept, that one indeed has the capacity of the above. Consciousness is sometimes used as a synonym for cognition, thus "meta-consciousness", also. Which returns us to the ambiguity of the word "consciousness", the many ways it is used, and trying to discern which one someone applied in _X_ instance.
     
  8. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    The

    During my EN and then my RN training I frequently cared for a patient who was totally lacking awareness. He would be asleep or awake, the only two states any staff member could discern

    One staff member did remark "He might be locked within his brain" meaning it is / could be he IS aware of surroundings and what is happening but lacks any ability to pass this information out

    No-one had any suggestion about how we might be able to discern such

    I hope medical personnel still taught such a condition exists and to be aware when caring for such patients to conduct themselves as if patient is aware

    Worse than being alive locked within your brain? being aware you are locked within your brain

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  9. C C Consular Corps - "the backbone of diplomacy" Valued Senior Member

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    From your blog(?):

    3. Is there room for an individual soul? Some people state that they cannot imagine how a nonmaterial soul could interact with matter.

    Lots of things could be possible in terms of whatever existence might be behind our phenomenal and intellectual representations (akin to the invisible computer -- to its denizens, anyway -- actually doing the work behind the entities, events, and causal relationships exhibited in a simulated reality).

    But that's not something science can pursue if these speculative affairs are undetectable. Which is no shortcoming, since science is a practical practice or enterprise like any other -- not an armchair philosophy or declarer of what ultimately is (metaphysics). Science shouldn't be conflated with scientism. (Perhaps a sort of detour I'm engaging in here, since you were primarily referring to materialism -- but still something that I need to mention as lead-in to the next paragraph.)

    There are non-extraordinary explanations for NDEs, like they are simply hallucinations caused by DMT flooding the brain during an aborted stage of death. Obviously, methodological naturalism is going to choose one of those solutions that is potentially testable, over metempirical inferences regarding what might be transpiring behind the Matrix, competing proposals that are resistant to being culled.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2021
  10. Holly-May Leslie Registered Member

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    Consciousness is awareness AND being responsive to one's surroundings. I used the word awareness instead because I wanted to include all types of awareness in my description. My word choice here had nothing to do with referencing manifestations occurring without understanding or cognition of them, but if that was your interpretation then so be it.
    Being aware as a dead brain sure sounds unpleasant. That is my opinion anyway. Do you really think that it would be like that? Materialists are so deluded. I'll bet that they don't even mean what they say when they say not even nothingness. Not nothing is by definition something. That is the point they seem to be missing. It is true that the universe is not nothingness, because in order for it to be around it must be something instead. Honestly though, I find a paradox in talking about nothing in any case. That is, that in order for something to not exist, that something must be real, because otherwise there is no it around to do so.
    This proves the existence of the multiverse, and yet there is another paradox in the existence of that multiverse because, if everything exists, then there is a reality in which not everything exists. Therefore, this reality must exist at the same time as every other reality in the multiverse, but in a different time zone. The only way in which this is possible though is if the reality exists in one bit of 4 dimensional space, as well as a different bit of 4 dimensional space at exactly the same place. This can be understood if one takes into account how space in general works though. An infinite amount of points form a line, and an infinite amount of lines form a plane, and an infinite amount of those form a 3 d thing, and an infinite amount of those form a 4d thing and so on, but when it comes down to it it's all just 0 dimensional points which can't really add up at all, so one bit of 4 dimensional space can exist as a 0 dimensional point in another bit of 4 dimensional space, meaning that these bits of space exist in the same place but also don't, because there isn't actually anything to any 0 dimensional point at all. It's a non thing, with location.
    Awareness may have cognition available, and it may not. The same goes for consciousness, although, if someone has consciousness they very probably have cognition too. It's just semantics.
    Okay. I guess word's have their meanings changed and skewed over time. Maybe in the future everyone will speak colloquially. That'd be funny.
    The notion of consciousness without a brain is nonsensical, just as the notion of digestion without a stomach is. However, consciousness without a brain is not impossible. I kind of get the impression that Schopenhauer was implying that it was impossible here. One can have desires without being conscious of them. These desires are probably the most difficult to fulfill because they tend to be vague and elusive and not have any good practical solutions.
     
  11. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Unmitigated drivel.
     
  12. Hermann Registered Senior Member

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    Can we imagine the gravitation between distant bodies in space? No - we just try to „understand“ it in a model and can calculate it, but not more!
    If NDE would not be generell rejected as hallucination, one could compare the awareness during NDE of different people, which is very different, but has also much in common. Perhaps our personality with all memories is not in our body, but outside in our soul. In this case the brain would be just a more or less perfect interface to the soul, without having a memory by itself. By this the individuell experience during NDE could reflect the individual afterlife. I know, this sounds strange, but it could be the reality.
     
  13. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Not even wrong - Wolfgang Pauli got it correct again

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    Something else to sink your teeth and wit into Wolfgang

    Yes it is - do I need to spell it out why?

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  14. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Can we imagine the gravitation between distant bodies in space?

    No need we can

    a better word here would be measure. Measurement of gravity shows gravity is real

    Hasn't that been done? AND

    ?

    Extreamly wild speculation. Lots of stuff can alter a person's personality which means for your speculation to be true lots of stuff would also react with the soul, AND BE DETECTABLE AS REACTIONS

    Does not happen

    Sounds like the sub conscious which we don't have access to until the sub conscious pushes its contents into our conscious region

    Back to wild speculation and onto
    wishful thinking

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  15. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    So sayith Humpty Dumpty

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  16. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Consciousness without "thought" is impossible.
    "Cogito, ergo sum"
     
  17. C C Consular Corps - "the backbone of diplomacy" Valued Senior Member

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    Memories and personality can be changed by brain damage.

    So at best, [a metaphysically speculative] corresponding mind (at some prior-in-rank level that makes the natural world possible) would only be passively storing information pertaining to one's life.

    The physical mind (brain) would still be the active agency directing the body.
     
  18. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    According to Anil Seth, the brain creates an expectation of cognition from sensory data. This is why he coined the term "controlled hallucination", where we create our expectation (best guess) of what the incoming data means.

    If the data is outside sensory range or previously unknown to the brain, it is unable to make sense of the data.

    Anil Seth shows two perfect examples of how a controlled hallucination (best guess) is false but is in fact a survival mechanism and an uncontrolled hallucination (noise) that becomes a controlled hallucination after being given a queue.

    Start video @ 4:20
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2021
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  19. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Hi

    fear of the unkown? - na, the different situations after death, depending how you die, are well known. Most involve rotting away, however since you are dead you (the non existent not any more you) won't feel or indeed know anything about what is happening

    Nothing to worry about that aspect

    Personally I will be pissed off at never being able to do anything again (your non-returnal)

    However I don't see anyway out of becoming dead so pointless worrying about

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  20. kx000 Valued Senior Member

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    Michael is the og of Heaven. Be a good man.
     
  21. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    No fun in being good

    Lacks the spice of life which gives life flavour

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  22. kx000 Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah but when you think Archangel Michael you know.
     

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