Why police detectives and the FBI consult psychics

A shed isn't a garage.

But that isn't really the point here, is it? Aren't you claiming that psychics assist in the investigations? You seem to be acknowledging that this one gave no assistance (at least none that had any impact on the investigation.)

 

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Contin'd in article:

On March 17, 1979, Gacy’s birthday, Lt. Kozenczak went to see Carol Broman to, once again, get more information on the location of Rob’s body. This time Carol was given the boy’s jacket to work with. The jacket, which Rob wore the night he disappeared, was removed by Des Plaines police officers from a wall in Gacy’s house during the excavation. Gacy hid many souvenir items from victims in his home.

Carol explained that she was sensing a trip in a car on a cold snowy night. It took place after the boy was dead and the boy’s body was on the floor on the back seat while Gacy drove:


"He goes by a body of water on the driver’s side. Oh God, how do you describe it? It curves. You go along water and then there’s a red brick building—an old brick building. There’s a lot of trees along the road … there’s a lot of distance traveled. The trees, if they had leaves, would almost touch. It doesn’t look like that in the winter, but they would be in the summer. There’s a sanitation or water plant to the right … Somewhere there’s an old old gas station … even the pumps are old. Somewhere past there he turns right. As you drive along this road there’s a lot of water. It’s always to your left."16




The psychic was questioned regarding the incinerator type structures mentioned during the first meeting. She responded:



"Yes, they’re to the left of where he’s going. He’s going to the right. I don’t know what it is. Now, I’m picking up the construction yard again. And this feeling of age … everything is old and run down. Everything is in the state of decay. There’s strong smell of rats. Why rats? That smell, like in Gary or the St. Lawrence Seaway, it comes through strongly. It’s very damp—even when its warm it’s damp. He knows where he’s going. He’s been there before. He’s panicky … I see the tower again. The tower is in front of that. It’s a peculiar area. I think construction, but I don’t know what else to call it. There’s a lot of sheds. Some remind me of airline hangars … There are big pieces of equipment and a lot of things burned. There are a lot of frame wood buildings and they’re old … a blue trailer … not the kind someone lives in, but used for construction. The red brick building to the left is boarded up. Things used to be done there, but it’s not used anymore. It’s like a barn, but it’s not … and the smell of rats … The trees almost form an arch. In the summer the area would be dark. As you go further down the road there’s a feeling of a prairie. Some of the buildings date back to the 1800’s. At one point there must have been activity … Again I’m getting that feeling of copper again—copper wiring of strands or … I don’t know what it is … Something made out of copper—rolls of wire … it’s copper-colored like strands of rolls or … and the fence again and the trees … there’s something peculiar about the property … if you were standing here the tower would be very large … it would be right behind you … you couldn’t miss it."17




The area described seemed very possibly to be that visited by Lt. Kozenczak and Dorothy Allison in early March. The weather had altered the landscape somewhat, disguising some of its physical features. The mention of Gacy’s familiarity with the area paralleled statements that he made following his arrest concerning the disposal of other bodies in the Des Plaines River, "five victims were put in the river off the I-55 bridge to be washed away by the barges."18


The last comments Broman made concerned the area having something to do with an airfield and an old World War II airplane and that she kept seeing a big letter "M." Not long after the second meeting with Carol Broman, Dorothy Allison called Lt. Kozenczak from New Jersey to tell him that the boy’s body might be near an area having to do with livestock.

Acting on Information From The Psychics

While administrative police personnel agreed that information from the psychics would be accredited to an anonymous caller, the lieutenant attempted to follow up on the areas and times described. Essentially, Lt. Kozenczak sought out areas that could have possibly fitted the fenced-in construction yard setting described. Detailed, organized searches of these areas were made in an attempt to find Rob Piest. This included searching numerous vacant lots near Gacy’s home, a boys’ camp, a cemetery, and a solid wash incinerator. After the first visit to Carol Broman’s, when Gacy confessed to throwing Rob’s body into the Des Plaines River, additional searches along the waterway near the I-55 bridge were conducted. Dogs, helicopters, boats with trained divers, and foot patrols were used at various points throughout the case.

Once, acting on the information obtained from Carol Broman, Lt. Kozenczak had a dirt hill excavated in the cemetery which had many features described by the woman. There was a chain link fence surrounding the area, there were numerous pieces of equipment stored there, a large sign with the word "Maryhill" recalled the "M" mentioned, and a radio antenna type tower could be viewed from its location. While the excavation proved fruitless, the lieutenant did learn that a victim of Gacy’s was buried just on the other side of the fence in the potter’s field.

Although guarded information, department personnel became cognizant and critical of the involvement of psychics. Searches continued nevertheless. While there was no expense to the department involved, as always, there were critics.

Some Resolutions, Thanks to The Psychics

The words of the psychics took on a new meaning on April 9, 1979, when Lt. Kozenczak got a telephone call from the Grundy County Sheriff’s police. As predicted by Dorothy Allison, the body of Rob Piest was discovered that day floating in the Des Plaines River. While Des Plaines police immediately responded by going to Grundy County, it wasn’t until a year later than Lt. Kozenczak visited the actual site where the body was found. At that time the lieutenant, accompanied by another officer, went to the site prepared to photograph and videotape physical evidence that coincided with what had been said by the psychics.

While en route to Morris, where the Grundy County Sheriff’s Office was located and where Kozenczak was to meet his escort to the body site, the lieutenant noticed several signs bearing names with double letters such as Bolingbrook, Romeoville, Shorewood, Channahon, Minooka, and Crest Hill. Allison had mentioned the double letters earlier. Not far from the bridge where Gacy confessed to throwing Rob’s body over, and where Allison had indicated that she smelled oil, several large Mobile Oil tanks highlighted the skyline. The investigator recalled Carol Broman’s mention of the letter "M." Of course, the "M" could also be interpreted as standing for Morris, the town located closest to where the body was found.

The investigator also found the Manor Motel, mentioned by Dorothy Allison, not far from the bridge. While en route to the body site, a large towerlike structure with fire at the top of it was sighted, recalling the incinerator-type structure mentioned during the first visit to Carol Broman’s. In fact, several variations of tower-type structures were seen in the area. The ones near the area’s nuclear power plant had lights on them. There were also numerous old wooded sheds, also in keeping from Broman’s reading, that were literally falling over from weather and age. At one point, an old gas station with old pumps was also identified.

As predicted by Broman, an abandoned old brick building was passed en route to the body site. It had originally been a paper mill, but was not boarded up. While it couldn’t be positively identified as the odor of rats, there was a very strong smell in the area surrounding the facility.

The actual gravel road leading to the river bank belonged to the Army Corp of Engineers. It was surrounded by a chain link fence, had a locked gate, a "Keep Out" sign and numerous waterways traversing through it—perhaps the reason Broman classified it as "peculiar." While she was correct about the water being to the left as the area was approached, she was also correct in describing the trees overhead. As indicated, the trees formed a type of archway and almost touched at the highest point. Further down the road huge coils of copper wire and yellow construction equipment, covered with plastic, were identified. Once at the riverside, where the Piest boy’s body was found caught on a log and surrounded by the heavy foliage touching in the water, Kozenczak noticed two stack-like structures in the distance above the bank area. As Carol had said, "The tower is in front of a fence and the body of water is in front of that."

On speaking with the sheriff’s staff, Kozenczak was informed that there was an old stagecoach stop, that had been passed en route, that dated back to the 1800’s. Again, Carol Broman had mentioned old buildings from that era. On inquiring about Dorothy’s commentary regarding livestock, the lieutenant learned that not far from the body site, closer to the interstate, there was a livestock weighing facility.

As Lt. Kozenczak headed back to the interstate, approximately one mile from the body site, he came across an unmarked cemetery. On inquiring as to its name, he was informed that it was titled Evergreen. It had been at that location a year previous, in the deep snow, that Dorothy Allison had got out of Kozenczak’s car indicating that the boy’s body was in that vicinity from which they had just come. The extreme weather had hampered any further search of the area at the time, but Mrs. Allison’s feelings appeared to be quite accurate."

 

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LOL! That's all you got? Wow...

 

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So we're agreed then? Psychics made no positive contribution to the investigation.

 

Where did you read that?

 

Not worth my time to detail all the nothing. Again, these are your claims and the burden of proof stays on you. If you won't put in even the slightest effort to pinpoint a point, why would I bother?

 

I asked you to highlight the impact and you floood-posted an entire article without highlighting the impact. I assume you did this because you recognize that you cannot prove your claim. Right?

The second long flood says police conducted numerous searches based on psychics suggestions and none panned out. So you must agree the psychics were of no help, right?

 

I posted one TV crime documentary in which the government official investigating said "On several occasions they fabricated facts. They fabricated news." You didn't like it because it wasn't American. You lose there.

Previously you said "you can't just make up stories that never happened and present them as factual on TV." I posted a story in which the Travel Channel "staged, false, fabricated and distorted" their own show. Again, you lose there.

But perhaps if you narrow it down enough you can keep believing everything you see on TV. Perhaps you could claim "there has never been a recent American crime documentary where psychics were featured where anyone has legal proof that all parts of it - including the commercials - were fabricated!" That might let you keep believing everything you hear.

 

You have a reading comprehension problem. The location of the body exactly matched what the psychics described, down to a T. Are you denying this information was correct? That it is evidence that psychics provide valuable and accurate information in crime cases?

 

LOL! Back to Brazil we go! And ofcourse the non-crime non-documentary reality show ALLEGED to have some inaccuracies in it but not that it was a fabricated show. You really are desperate to be right on this. Is that because it happens so rarely?

 

I just provided an outstanding example of a psychic being accurate on a crime case. Which brings up the total now to around 82? That was in response to Clueless's request. Do I really need to abbreviate or highlight it for those of you who have problems reading detailed articles.

 

The government official claimed it was inaccurate, and in fact the man has been arrested and charged with some of the very crimes he was "investigating." But if you would like to believe that his shows were 100% accurate, you have every right to do so.

I could care less whether you believe everything you see on TV. (Sorta funny actually.)

 

I'm talking about the two guys living with that tribe of natives. Was that really faked? Were the natives just actors? Was it filmed on the backlot of Universal Studios?

Strawman. Where did I say that?

 

I posted a detailed account of a psychic's involvement in a famous crime case. You complain that it is too much...that I'm flooding my own thread. NOW you complain I'm presenting nothing at all. What's wrong with you? Getting flustered in the face of all this evidence?

 

Yes, of course I'm denying it. The quote says explicitly that numerous searches were made based on psychics' information and none panned out.

 

I don't think you know what the word "flooding" means in this context: its a whole lot of nothing.

 

I must have missed that. Where did it say the psychic's descriptions were not accurate?

 

Here, MR, this is why you need to point concisely to the key points:

So that really should be clear to you: based on inputs from psychics, numerous searches were conducted, utilizing a huge amount of valuable police resources, and nothing came of any of it. The best that can be claimed is one area searched ended-up being somewhat close to where a body was later found.

 

You are starting to sound like a parrot now with this pathetic goalpost shifting attempt. Did you forget what this thread is about? It is about whether the psychics helped solve the cases, not whether their vague predictions can be fit to the data after the fact.

 

And yet everything the psychic said was spot on. How do you account for that?