Why there is suffering in this world?

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by Saint, Jan 9, 2013.

  1. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

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    Very sorry, but I would think that ANY person above the age of three could decide *that*.
     
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  3. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    At this point, we're not talking about an understanding that transcends scriptures.

    We're talking about misquoting and defamation, and the consequences of that.

    A poster claims that he struggles with the Buddhist explanation of suffering.
    But from what he writes about this supposedly Buddhist explanation of suffering, it's not clear where he got it from. It doesn't seem all that Buddhist to me at all, so I am asking for a reference from them.

    As another example: there is a popular opinion that says that the Buddha said that life is suffering. And yet the people who claim this cannot provide an actual scriptural reference where the Buddha said that.

    In contrast, when people claim that such and such is said in the Bible or the Koran, it's normal to expect them to provide chapter and verse.

    One cannot just claim that someone said something, while being unable or unwilling to provide an actual reference for said claim. That amounts to defamation.

    Really, this should be a no-brainer.
     
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  5. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    Actually, not at all.

    As some studies show (see the Happiness Trap for references) people tend to wrongly predict what will make them happy, and how intensely happy it will make them.
     
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  7. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

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    So? That hardly matters when someone is trying to decide the difference between happy and *suffering*!!
     
  8. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    Many people past the age of three notice that human life is a mixed bag: the same thing has both pleasurable and displeasing aspects; the same thing tends to bring both happiness and sorrow.
    Which makes it so hard to distinguish between happiness and suffering.
     
  9. Balerion Banned Banned

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    That's a non-sequitur. People's failure to predict what will make them happy comes from having very vague conceptions of what that thing actually entails. For example, one might think winning the lottery will make them happy, but they're not taking into account the possibility of greed and betrayal from loved ones after the fact, or what happens if/when the money is gone. The same is true of people who desire fame, or sex, or to be free of their marriage commitments, or their professional responsibilities (and vice-versa). But that's not the same thing as not being able to distinguish between being content and being miserable. There's no mistaking those feelings. How often do you hear of the tortured rock star, who can't understand why, in spite of their fame, they're unhappy? It's not a question of recognizing suffering or misery once one is experiencing it, it's a question of predicting it beforehand.

    And citing self-help books as references is lame.
     
  10. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    You're just restating what I already said.


    Strawman.

    Many self-help books are a convenient source of references for studies on a topic.
     
  11. Balerion Banned Banned

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    You went on to say:

    You're trying to say it's difficult to distinguish pain from pleasure, or happiness from sadness, but this is not true.

    Oops! That's not a straw man, wynnie. A straw man is when I misrepresent your argument and make it appear as though I'm refuting it when really I'm just refuting an argument you haven't made. In this case, you are presenting a self-help book as a reference to a point you're making, and I'm saying that it's lame to do such a thing. That's not a straw man, as it addresses what you actually said. And it isn't even an argument; I just made a comment. And I stand by it. Self-help books tend to be pseudoscientific fluff reads intended to make money for the hacks who wrote them, and not genuinely helpful. But that's not even the point here, which is really just that you're citing a reference we have to pay for to know what the hell you're talking about. Something more open-source would have been appreciated.
     
  12. Hertz Hz Registered Senior Member

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    Without pain we could not have pleasure. This is the reason women feel the pain of childbirth: they have had the pleasure of intercourse; God has saved them shame.
     
  13. rodereve Registered Member

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    Yeah, I was just going to say the same thing, except the crazy part about God. Without suffering we wouldn't know what happiness is. we'd need a baseline.

    And suffering exists because our brain evolved to sense pain, we need environmental cues to adjust our sensory-motor receptive system. Without pain, we'd die pretty quick. If you didn't feel any pain, your body wouldn't automatically adjust while you sleep, so your ankles/joint/organs wouldn't be relieved of pressure, and you'd eventually die in your sleep.
     

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