why we need ghosts

Discussion in 'UFOs, Ghosts and Monsters' started by birch, Feb 27, 2016.

  1. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    There's no hint of mechanism for quantum entanglement or dark energy either. But we still posit the reality of those phenomena because they make sense of what we observe.
     
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  3. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 69 years old Valued Senior Member

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    I thought it is great MR confirms my post #933

    by taking the time to look up the definition of ENERGY as per his #934

    although I have a suspicion he thought he was reinforcing his own position

    How bad of me to have such a thought right?

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  5. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 69 years old Valued Senior Member

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    Energy is still a noun and refers to something

    Yes a measurement

    A form of energy is still energy for example

    Yes a measurement

    It's not just a barren form of nothing

    Yes it is a name for a measurement

    Time to put energy to work and make some coffee

    Biological energy to get off my arse, move to the kitchen and get the stuff for making coffee together

    Electrical energy to boil the water

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    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
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  7. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 69 years old Valued Senior Member

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    Oh I have just seen a ghost

    It must be a form of measurement

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  8. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    I don't recall any part of the definition I cited saying energy was a measurement, do you?
     
  9. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 69 years old Valued Senior Member

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    Well spotted

    Below is your dictionary reference (minus the link)

    en·er·gy
    Dictionary result for energy
    /ˈenərjē/
    noun
    1. 1.
      the strength and vitality required for sustained physical or mental activity.
      "changes in the levels of vitamins can affect energy and well-being"
      synonyms:vitality, vigor, life, liveliness, animation, vivacity, spirit, spiritedness, fire, passion, ardor, zeal, verve,enthusiasm, zest, vibrancy, spark, sparkle, effervescence, exuberance, buoyancy, perkiness, sprightliness; More
    2. 2.
      power derived from the utilization of physical or chemical resources,especially to provide light and heat or to work machines.
      synonyms: power
      "the panels turn solar energy into electricity"
    The red highlights that which would be measured

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  10. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Various types of measurement.
     
  11. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Speaking of measurement, do you think ghosts can be happy or sad, angry or glad?
     
  12. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 69 years old Valued Senior Member

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    I would put down more as descriptions of synonyms (as they are listed) which are not measurable, the closest being graded on a very flexible sliding scale of percentage

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  13. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 69 years old Valued Senior Member

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    No

    Hint

    Ghost do not exist

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  14. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Inanimate ghosts do exist, or rather can exist for limited times. Quantum Tunneling.

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    Wikipedia

    this may further illustrate.

    How Quantum Biology Might Explain Life’s Biggest Questions
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  15. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 69 years old Valued Senior Member

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    And these ghost can
    be measured and be happy blah blah blah?

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  16. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Could be the title to a song. The hook.
    "be measured and be happy", (chorus) blah, blah, blah.....

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    Nooooooooo....., if a ghost is a quantum phenomenon, it will not be pleased by being collapsed upon measurement.
    Not pleasant.............

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    p.s. do things shrink from quantum collapse when measured?
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  17. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 69 years old Valued Senior Member

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    Soooooooo a quantum phenomenon ghost does not like tape measures

    The more I learn about ghost the more I would like them to be real

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    , sad they are not

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  18. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    That and I'm sure any type of observation would be very detrimental to its continued existence. That's why they run away, lest they evaporate from all the probings....

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    I agree, I'd love to meet someone who had a friendly ghost sitting on his shoulder.

    Reminds of the movie "The Golden Compass"


    and


    I love mystique and magic. It feeds the imagination.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  19. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 69 years old Valued Senior Member

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    Ummmmm so true

    Unfortunately some imaginations become overweight

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  20. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    i.e the sun and its temperatures...
    the sun has super powers

    https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddar...heating-theory-presented-at-2015-tess-meeting
     
  21. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Wrong thread.
     
  22. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Bans here are automatic, based on accumulated warning points. If you are banned, you only have your own actions to blame. It's not that hard to abide by the site posting guidelines. Lots of posters never receive warnings.

    I'd love it if you could present some good evidence for ghosts. Are you planning on doing that some time soon? Or are you only able to cut and paste youtube videos, which you then spam to our forums?

    These beliefs of yours come from somewhere, but they have nothing to do with any evidence you've ever presented here.

    I think you believe this stuff because you believe stories you've read or heard from people. That is, you believe in a particular mythology of ghosts. It's similiar in many ways to having religious faith. Perhaps your belief in alien spacecraft and ghosts etc. is what you have substituted for an overt religion. That kind of thing is not uncommon for those who lose their faith in a god.

    Looked at critically, of course, your beliefs about ghosts are a bit of a hodge-podge. You say, simultaneously, that ghosts are like negative remnants of a person that remain (somehow) after death. But then you also allow that ghosts are like recordings ("residual images"). But then again, you say that you think ghosts are part of a soul. But not all ghosts. Some ghosts are other-worldly spirits, like demons or whatever.

    Basically, ghosts are whatever you need them to be, from moment to moment. As long as they exist for you, it doesn't actually matter what they are.

    There is no "free-floating" or "pure" energy. Energy is not a substance. There is no "pure" energy. Energy is an accounting system. Ultimately, it's just a number related to the physical state of some kind of system.

    You don't buy into the scientific method, either. That much is clear.

    What would that "domain" be? Hyperspace? The ghost plane? The demon-filled heavenly reaches?

    And how can a number allow a physical thing to interact with other physical things?

    You're throwing words around, but you're not making a lot of sense.

    I get it. For proponents of the woo, like yourself, energy is like a mystical, magical substance, undefinable and ineffable. Like ghosts, it can be whatever you need it to be. Science has a rather more precise definition of the term - one that makes the concepts associated with energy falsifiable and therefore scientific, unlike all this ghost nonsense.

    You face the problem that every believer in souls faces: how, exactly, does the immaterial soul influence the material body? What is the mechanism? Waving your hands vaguely in the direction of "energy" doesn't begin to solve the problem.

    No hardcore evidence? How surprising and unexpected!

    Regarding quantum entanglement: the idea emerges from an examination of an explicit "mechanism", namely the "mechanism" of quantum mechanics itself. Entanglement wasn't an idea that people dreamed up, so that they then had to go searching for ways to rationalise it, unlike your ghosts. Rather, entanglement is a prediction of a rigorous mathematical theory, verified by empirical experiments.

    As for dark energy, a number of possible mechanisms are proposed. However, the term "dark energy" itself is mostly a place holder at present. There is an established empirical effect that needs an explanation. We're not sure what the best explanation is yet, so we do science.

    In contrast, there is not even an established empirical effect to be examined in the case of ghosts, other than effects to do with psychology of belief.

    P.S. I was going to say that there's no religion-like belief in quantum entanglement or dark energy, but of course there is. There's a fringe element, led by people like Deepak Chopra, for whom quantum entanglement or dark energy are of the same flavor as the mystical "energies" applied by believers in souls and ghosts. These people draw on the parts of the science that suit their purposes at any given time, and ignore the rest. For them, entanglement means whatever they need it to mean, just like a ghost is whatever you need it to be at the time.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
  23. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 69 years old Valued Senior Member

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    Magical Realist and Write4U like this.

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