Well polls were giving him better chances then hillary, Hillary and trump were the least liked candidates ever to run for president, Bernie was doing significantly better in pure favorability. Hey I'm all for checking that, and thankful for Jill putting out the money for it, she doing this probably to get attention though.
Sadly, he's not. As he continues to dust off his own voters, reminding just how foolish they were to believe him, the question is whether or not they care; early indications say they're just fine with more of what they described as corruption, reinforcing the establishments, and pretty much all of it. When we get right down to it, only the bigotry will remain, and it seems that was actually the reason Donald Trump stood a chance with the average voter in the first place. In a way it's unsurprising, but my generation came up on a steady diet of American exceptionalism by which it would be unfair and insulting to suggested beforehand this outcome was possible. In the end, when it comes to conservatives, we should just go with our gut. Looks and waddles and quacks, and all that, and it's going to be hard to believe them next time when they tell us it's about jobs and economy and integrity instead of women and skin color.
I wish I could believe that... but the average Republican voter's responses to the absolute cock-blocking done by our current Congress has shown me that they couldn't give a rats ass, so long as its "their guy" in charge next time Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Yeah well I'm not a conservativs and I'm telling you it was about jobs and economy and integrity, Hillary was a horrible candidate with decades of baggage the republicans had been itching to bring out, while FBI investigations are going on no less! Trump came in as an anti-establishment candidate and with a style of blatant huckstery that the population had no immunity to. His disgusting noises of wanting to fuck his daughter, kick out the Mexicans, muslims, bomb families, etc, all came off as refreshing honesty to the voters! Unlike Hillary's robotic committee designed low gaffe speech pattern that the population have come the expect from every politian. Trump produced gaffes per second such that it overloaded the media and became mundane, too the point where garbing women by the pussy didn't even cause people to blink, it was either an act of genius or he Forrest Gumped his way into the presidency (since the latter has happened repeatedly in American history, probably that). If by 2020 all that left of Trump is his boorish clowning and the establishment remains, and the economy for the labor class continues to suck, and nothing improves, he is going to have a hard time getting re-elected. Certainly if we run Bernie or Warren in 2020, taking the anti-establishment ground from under him. Now if we run Hillary again in 2020 that would be a huge mistake.
Primarily because neither side had focused on his destruction. ANY candidate that was not the target of either party had higher approval ratings.
When Republicans boast that it's a smear campaign, and, you know, you're just fine with that, anyway, because it allows you to pretend whatever prejudice you have is justified, I think I'm going to doubt what you're telling me. Furthermore, when conservative voters complain about jobs and economy and integrity, and then elect an emblem of the problem, I think I'm going to doubt what they are telling me. A vote for Donald Trump is not a vote against cronyism; it is an endorsement of cronyism. A vote for Donald Trump is not a vote against corruption; it is an endorsement of corruption. A vote for Donald Trump is not a vote for jobs; it is a vote for pandering to corporations. A vote for Donald Trump is not a vote against the Establishment, it is a vote to empower and entrench the Establishment. Compared to the campaign rhetoric, it seems all Trump voters get out of the deal is more of what they complained about and significant empowerment of discrimination, bigotry, and bullying. And, you know, if they're sanguine with that, yes, some of us are going to notice. By the way, is there a reason I should care how conservative you're not if you need to empower conservative mayhem and infamy in order to justify yourself? Seriously: "Yeah well I'm not a conservative"? You say that like it means something. No, really, would you like to let us in on that one? Because the phenomenon of someone telling me, "I'm not _____, I just need _____ validated", just isn't new. I've been hearing it about this shit all my life: "This is acceptable―even necessary, I tells ya!―because _____!" yet "_____" never comes true because that's not what anyone is actually trying to do. Just like electing Donald Trump. The supremacism and bigotry are acceptable, at least―even necessary, when you get right down to it, because otherwise one wouldn't do this because one isn't supremacist or bigoted, right?―because jobs and economy and integrity, which we're not going to get, and why should any of Trump's voters be sanguine about that unless the supremacism and bigotry and bullying was the whole point, which, personally, I suspect it is. I've watched this go on for decades, and it was never supposed to be enough Americans that this could happen. But, you know, we built this. All of us, together, as Americans. This is what we get for tolerating bullies. This is what we get for not rioting against Republicans a few more times. This is what we get, strangely, for Democrats paying attention to voters. Civilized society isn't a suicide pact, yet a minority of voters just won an election by declaring to the other. To the one, political science wonks get to be impressed. To the other, people looking to pretend they're not this, that, or the other while scrabbling to justify their conspiracist identity need get the comfort that, hey, at least they just won an election. Congratulations.
Exactly why he would have run a better chance of winning. If you want to win you don't use a candidate the republicans openly have decades of smear prepared for. Never attribute malice what can be attributed to idiocy. They argue that because Trump was not a politician and openly claimed to have bought off politicians that makes him the perfect weapon against corrupt politicians... don't ask me to explain that logic further, because that is as far as I could comprehend. Your preaching to the choir there. Yes obviously I agree, the problem is THEY see him as anti-establishment and THEY see him as somehow giving a fuck about them, WE (and I mean liberals and democrats) failed to show how he was the very source of establishment corruption, and the quintessential "fuck the people" businessman. Certainly it would have been a whole lot easier had we been running an anti-establishment candidate to compare him against. Had we run Bernie or Warren who have been independent or limited political experience and lots of record of being against "the establishment" Wallstreet, etc, we would have had a better chance. Well they presently think they are getting the "drain the swamp" trump they wanted him for, and when pointing out, his cabinet picks and back tracking, they start denying the reality before them or openly start showing signs of buyers remorse. We will have to wait and see though after 4 years of Trump, what promises he manages to keep, like I said. I don't care what you think, unless your a party member and vote on party issues? I don't care if you think it "empowers conservative mayham and infamy" I care about winning next time and if that means we need to make some honest painful and detailed review of ourselves, so be it. I said it before in 2008, she has too much baggage, I voted for Obama, Obama won the primary and we won the presidency, gloriously, against a very respectable moderate John McCain (and his bag of hair on fire vice), Obama even won a second term against the Mormon prophesy no less. Once again in 2016, WAY TOO MUCH BAGGAGE I said, I first tried to get Warren to run but she refused, she did NOT want to go up against Hillary, no one in the party wanted to. Then Bernie jumped in and was getting all this attention and enthusiasm and individual donors, so I voted for him, well I lost the primary, sucked it up, campaigned for Hillary, figure if she was going to win it would have to be against somethings as clownish as Trump, nope, turns out Hillary could not even do that. Yeah you're misreading me. But I'll try to fit your format: "We should not run an establishment candidate with decades of baggage, this is acceptable-even necessary, I tells ya-because if not we get Donald fucking Trump as president... I don't know what to do with the "yet" part. Oh I get it now, but I was not saying that or anything like that. Only that most of his voters ignored his bigotry, supremacism and bullying and merely wanted to fuck over the "establishment", but hey we will find out, if you're right then in 4 years, if he has done nothing he promised or worse implements all the most racists and bigoted things he promised like the great wall of trump (which he has already downgraded to a fence), Muslims registry, and immigrant dea/ I mean "happy camps", then they will elect him again. Of course we could run Hillary Clinton again then he will win either way. Yeah strange right. A black guy gets elected, twice! And yet now all the racists come out of the woodworks to vote? I would have thought they would have come out in mass to stop the black guy. Hmmm maybe there are other reasons they elected Trump, eeh? Oh no he is not even president yet, just wait, our punishment is coming and yes the followers will be devoured first, but their suffering will be shorter than ours. Well technically more riots before might have helped, now it is utterly useless, what would have been more helpful would have been more people showing up to vote, turnout was lower than 2012, and way lower than 2008, almost like we were running two of the most disliked candidates against each other. eeh? Had we had an inspiring candidate that people liked, to counter trump, the outcome would likely have been different. LOL! Had we paid attention to voters we would not have run Hillary Clinton! If that was a jab aimed at me, what conspiracist identity? I certainly did not win this election, not my president candidate, nor local candidates (thanks to the down ballot depression of low democrat turn out for Hillary) won. But I will take an congratulation for "I told you so".
I have adopted a very cynical attitude about the whole situation - not that I have much choice in the matter. I can't wait to wallow in schadenfreude watching them reap what they have sown. Naturally, there will be some way of spinning blame off on those durn librels and no Trumper will assume responsibility - but still. Yeah, I know - what about those that didn't vote for him and don't deserve the hell that is coming? Oh, well... Get with the program - apparently being selfishly self-centered and ignorant is now the patriotic, sensible default. I'm white, straight, male and ostensibly Christian. I spent my teen years in South Carolina so I can play ignorant hick pretty well - hey, I'm good. My more enlightened and heathen, pansexual relations and friends that are not so lily white? Back into the closet with you, I guess - winter is coming. Of course, I actually detest the man, with far more intensity than I have ever felt toward a politician in the past. I'm trying to see if I can make it four years without hearing his voice - so far so good, barring an inadvertent snippet here and there before I can get to the remote. If we're still here in four years I will relax a bit. Even so, I fear that the world will not be the same - and that's not presented with optimism. PS - want to boycott Trump products? There's an app for that: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/boycotttrump/id1171663655 The best I can hope for is as little harm as possible...
Well, yes, if he didn't run he'd stand a better chance of winning. But that's sort of a meaningless point. If he HAD won the primary, then the entire GOP smear machine would have been focused on him instead. He'd be painted as a criminal, a fraud, a liar, a Putin-supporting, Castro-loving communist intent on destroying America. They would highlight how he fraudulently stole the nomination from Clinton (who was favored to win) by ignoring the delegates and using anti-american superdelegates. If he's going to ignore the rules during the primary, why does anyone think he wouldn't just ignore the Constitution? And to "prove this" they'd point out: Bernie pushed solidarity with Iran while they were holding Americans hostage He chanted "Here, there, everywhere/ The Yankee will die" in Nicaragua He once wrote "Now, if children go around naked, they are liable to see each others sexual organs, and maybe even touch them!" - which he called a good thing. (The above of course means he's a pedophile - which is why he voted against Amber Alerts and against anti-child-porn laws.) Etc.
Yeah so? they would have a few months to do that, they had and did that for DECADES with Hillary, more time for it all to set in. Look at how they ran around aimlessly when Obama won the primary in 2008 instead of what they expected and wanted. That not the alternate history I was calling for, rather I'm merely pointing out to everyone that voted for Hillary in the primary: you choose wrong, you darn fucked up, now we have president Trump, thanks alot. Yeah and? Perhaps you have not noticed but Donald Fucking Trump won, despite all the things he has said, that we had video-audio proof of played over and over again, across every news channel! People don't respond to attack ads anymore, or media hearsay, they do respond to rallies though.
Uh huh.. The 66 percent of Owsley County that gets health coverage through Medicaid now must reconcile itself with the 70 percent that voted for Republican Governor-elect Matt Bevin, who pledged to cut the state's Medicaid program and close the state-run Kynect health insurance exchange. Lisa Botner, 36, belongs to both camps. A Kynector — a state agent representing Kynect in the field — recently helped Botner sign up for a Wellcare Medicaid card for herself and her 7-year-old son. Without that, Botner said, she couldn't afford the regular doctor's visits and blood tests needed to keep her hyperthyroidism in check. "If anything changed with our insurance to make it more expensive for us, that would be a big problem," Botner, a community college student, said Friday at the Owsley County Public Library, where she works. "Just with the blood tests, you're talking maybe $1,000 a year without insurance." Yet two weeks earlier, despite his much-discussed plans to repeal Kynect and toughen eligibility requirements for Medicaid, she voted for Bevin. "I'm just a die-hard Republican," she said. You want to know what the kicker is? These people were told they would lose their health cover, that allowed them to access healthcare, for some, the first time in many years. But here you are arguing that it really is about "jobs and economy and integrity".. "To be honest with you, a lot of folks in Owsley County went to the polls and voted against gay marriage and abortion, and as a result, I'm afraid they voted away their health insurance," Turner said. "Which was their right to do, I guess. But it's sad. Many people here signed up with Kynect, and it's helped them, it's been an absolute blessing." The community's largest-circulation newspaper, the Three Forks Tradition in Beattyville, did not say much about Kynect ahead of the election. Instead, its editorials roasted Obama and Hillary Clinton, gay marriage, Islam, "liberal race peddlers," "liberal media," black criminals and "the radical Black Lives Matter movement." "The people I talk to, health care wasn't even mentioned," said Gary Cornett, chairman of the Owsley County Republican Party. "In Southeast Kentucky, the social issues are important. We're a small, traditional, tight-knit community, and there are certain ways we do things." These dumbarses voted against their economic best interest, because of their bigotry.
So you seem to think people are smart and consistent? This election will be a hard lesson learned for idiots, many will refuse to learn, only become more delusional and blame everyone but themselves. Yes it is, I fail to see that is evidence against my argument. They think republicans are going to implement BETTER healthcare, because they are stupid, they think big bad government is what causes all their economic problems. Yes many are bigots, are multiple congruent factors beyond you? The question is why did we win in 2008 and 2012? Where were all these bigots then? Clearly they did not vote, voted for obama or others came out and countered their vote then, why did they not do that this time? Well 1) We ran a LOSER candidate, 2) They rallied stronger this time, but what could rally a butch of racist stronger than a black man running for president, twice, clearly it can't simply be racism. Well multiple factors rallied them: the regressive left, wanting "real" change, economic stagnation resulting in scapegoating immigrants, scapegoating political corruption, etc, etc. Lessons for us to learn: Don't run a candidate the republicans have decades of dirt on, that has FBI investigations, that the public hates and feels untrustworthy. Focus on economic improvements for the labor class, do not focus on issues that most people don't give a fuck about and that rallies our opponents.
I talked to the people of the heart land when I was going door to door campaigning, they liked Bernie, they felt he was honest and respectable, even if they disagree with his policies, unlike Hilary who they have demonized for decades. That would have given us a few percentage points more votes, that would have been all that is needed to make the difference.
They had a fully operational smear campaign going full blast from day one. They had a weakness in their own candidate, unfortunately - he was a decent human being. You are contradicting yourself - did you notice? Pick your candidate based on either 1) economic issues or 2) invulnerability to Republican smear. Which? About one in seven of them stayed home - Neither Romney nor McCain went hardcore bigot enough to get them to vote. Romney even showed signs of membership in the "liberal elite" (their field mark is any sign of disrespect to mobile homes), while McCain seemingly had self-respect issues - when offered the opportunity to make a public spectacle of racial bigotry and thereby get the white working class vote solidly behind him, he chose instead to defuse the situation and present his opponent as a worthy candidate. Sad.
Bernie resonated just fine with the heartland, especially midwestern and northern white heartland. Clinton lost in the white heartland vote - to Bernie, and to Trump.
Nine months actually. The primaries start in February, and by March a winner is fairly easy to predict. Yes, they had more time. Nine months is a pretty good chunk of time to smear someone. Exactly. Smears, attacks and lies work. Yes - they gave him (not the ads against him, him) lots of free airtime. This election demonstrates that that's not true. The high road just plain doesn't work.
Oh so that is why obama was not elected? Decades of smear works, months of smear does not, Trump is proof! How come all of Hillary's smear did not get her free airtime? Was hours and hours of C-Span watching congress roast her alive about her private emails or bengazi or what ever other controversy they could glue to her not enough for her to get free airtime? Yes, candidate wise, high road does not work, we need a fire and brimstone candidate talking about how we are all fucked and it is the elite-rich-republicans fault. Ads wise though there is no high road: it is all useless. Look at how much more money and more ads Hillary ran verse Trump, nearly half a billion dollars more! Your just in denial billvon, I'll give you a few months and maybe we can come back to this. That is insane, complete mental gymnastics on your part. Bernie, Warren? Oh I see what you did there, I'm not asking for "invulnerability" merely just not being a candidate the republicans had planned for decades to fight. Taxing the rich, free healthcare, free education are things a majority of americans approve of, we could win on that, bernie was getting millions on that alone, no name recognition, the enthusiasms was palpable. And not having a black man as president was not enough motivation for the racists to go and vote for ANY white guy? More denial, this has gone ad nauseum. These racist white working class were like "well a nigger is about to become president but mccain is too soft, so I'm just going to sit by and let this nigger take over, take my guns and enslave me." Four years later "Well nigger overlord is certainly an African Muslim hell bent on taking my guns, but Romney well he just too snooty for me, guess I will just sit back again and let Hussian be re-elected". Clearly they were not racists enough if McCain moderatism and Romney elitism was too much for them to come out and vote against a black man. Again I see no progress with this, and what ever thread I'm on you got to drag me back into your denial, so I'm just not going to bring it up with you, maybe we can talk about it when you move to another stage of grief. I on the other hand went straight to acceptance, benzos can help do that.
Part the First Actually, this election ends up being proof of a lie. The way it works is that once upon a time when we tried to address ideas like American racism and supremacism, we met resistance much like we hear about police, that you can't condemn the whole for the actions of a mere few. It gets a lot more complicated, of course, when we have weird laws in place that result in prosecutors saying they can't even overcome the burden of good faith in order to charge perjury because, you know, he lied in good faith, but the underlying point is the same: There is a lot more bad faith than we were supposed to believe. And, you know, you've seen it in your lifetime; you've even taken part whether you want to or not―calm down, egomaniac, we all do. Besides, your argument on this point doesn't make sense, anyway, at least according to the numbers↱. Something else went wrong. And it turns out Donald Trump was right: There was an unaccounted supremacist reservoir in the vote. The two are not mutually exclusive, to the one; and, to the other, that's the kind of (ahem!) elitism that gets liberal discourse mauled. I've been through this cycle with conservative voters too many times, already, so it's really hard to trust them about these things, anyway; this time, though, it was pretty damn naked―these people have no fucking excuse. You're not supposed to comprehend; the explanation was never intended to make sense, explain anything, or accomplish any use other than telling you to fuck off without saying the words. Or ... actually, yeah, there's this: No, they don't. That's just the excuse they give us. If it was more than a cheap, overworn excuse they ought to be up in arms about the show he's putting on. I'll meet you halfway on failing to drive the stake, because the president-elect's lawyer basically admitted, once upon a time, that Donald Trump is a rapist. But that's the thing― ―this wasn't about policy. This was about uppity women and black people and queers. Democrats have some reckoning to undertake about their ideas of general human decency; they actually believed in American exceptionalism and virtue, which are, generally speaking, nothing more than lip service, and now, after this conservative victory, not even that for being an impossible sell. Though who knows? Maybe Bernie Sanders was onto something when he went attacked black voters. Maybe attacking Southern blacks would have won him Wisconsin and Michigan and Pennsylvania. We'll see how it all goes. As he prepares to bulwark entrenched interests, the noise and fury is supposed to be about Mitt Romney because Kellyanne Conway said watch the birdie? Like I said, I doubt what they tell us. If they think they're getting the drainage they voted for, then what the hell did they actually vote for? Oh, right: Supremacism and bigotry. Buyer's remorse? Or do you mean they will blame it on Democrats, and you will say they have a point, just like one person's lies equal another person's baggage. That's your contribution, sir. No, seriously, after decades of them trying to tell us Democrats elected Donald Trump, are you going to believe them on that one, too? Well, it seems the part about honesty causes you some pain. Whenever someone says, "I'm not a _____", but reiterates the position for "_____", anyway, it might be important. There is some other reason why you need to legitimize dishonesty. I can only wonder what it is. Yeah, see, that's the thing. This is you we're talking about, and we get how you feel. And the fact that you're willing to empower Republican dishonesty that way, to legitimize it, just so you can feel good about the fact that She has been stopped, is actually kind of disgusting, dude. ―End Part I―
Nope. But once they had a champion, they turned out in droves. Trump was not smeared. He was presented. No, as it turned out. Not compared with Trump, anyway. She did get a boost from the Benghazi hearings, where she was televised for free, but that was notable for being rare. Trump, on the other hand - my wife actually quit watching the TV news on the grounds that it had turned into all Trump all the time. And that was early in the primaries. It's called having a memory. I'm sure you can find various youtube videos of McCain remonstrating with the ugly bigotry of his crowds, suppressing it, rather than inciting and representing it as Trump did - this was famous at the time. Again the lack of familiarity and silly presumptions about the Left, as well as me, or anybody like me - what grief? We had no dog in the fight except the country itself, and that entity was bent on self-immolation. We've seen Reagan re-elected, W re-elected, we've seen the Confederacy rise again - Trump is not a new or unexpected thing, for us. Right now, some of us are drawing any attention we can to the recount issue, because it leads directly to spotlighting the voting machines, the voting suppression, the effects of the ID laws, and Obama's remaining time in executive power to start things that would be hard to stop. Not because we think there's a ghost of a chance of electing Clinton, but because we have the unusual circumstance of the Democratic Party leadership and the Clinton power base on our side in dealing with what has proven to be a real and persistent bad situation. What the recount may do, if pushed, is highlight and make publicly visible the fact that the US has once again - fifth in a row - held a Presidential election that would be flagged by the standard UN observation crews as likely to have been fraudulent - manipulated to the point of invalidating its results.
