Windows 8

Discussion in 'Computer Science & Culture' started by GeoffP, May 2, 2013.

  1. mathman Valued Senior Member

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    Just to clarify, my primary browser is Avant, which is a front end for IE. This means I need IE.

    In passing Avant also has Firefox and Chrome engines built in. For these browsers the stand alone versions are not necessary.
     
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  3. Repo Man Valued Senior Member

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    Official support for Windows XP ends on April 8, 2014. It will be interesting to see how it plays out; the previous EOL'd MS operating systems I've dealt with continued for a while, but the circle grew ever smaller. We still have one PC at work running Windows 2000. IE 6 is incompatible with quite a few websites, and the newest version of Firefox still compatible with 2000 is a couple of years old now. Neither browser is compatible with YouTube. The user base for XP will be the largest one ever to deal with an operating system that has been orphaned. For many, many people and businesses, XP works perfectly well for their needs. If they had to pay for security and compatibility updates, assuming the cost was reasonable, they probably would. My employer has about 18 PCs, and probably four of them have Windows 7; with the exception of the previously mentioned Windows 2000 computer, all the rest are running XP. Upgrading them to something newer is going to come at a significant cost, with no corresponding increase in ability.
     
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  5. Stoniphi obscurely fossiliferous Valued Senior Member

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    I still have 1 of my desktops running XP 64. It isn't connected to the 'net, the software on it is all very old but serves its purpose. I won't be changing the OS out. May turn it into a server though, as I have a bunch of unused drives laying around and could always use another geeky project to doink around with.

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  7. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

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    I can't comment on Windows 8 functionality or whether it's good or bad, however I can comment on the backgrounds to what goes on with OS production.

    If you have a working OS for a long period of time, there will be bug's and exploits that require patching. Those patches add onto the initial code, however sometimes there is "orphaned" code that no longer is used due to hardware changes, or software changes and this eventually fills up your hard-drive or slows various processes up (like startup) because your system has to step through all the hooks to an obsolete framework.

    Releasing a new OS isn't always about new gimmicks, sometimes it's just about replacing the entropy caused by patching back to a supportable base. (in essence Old OS's become more problem to patch and therefore support as they get older.)

    When a new OS is brought out, it is usually done so with teething problems.

    First off there is the "hardware drivers" problem, Ideally manufacturers of hardware would output their Standards/specifications to which OS creators would attempt to build to, unfortunately in a world filled by corporative competition, patent laws and espionage, most companies hold information on their innovations a secret almost right up to the point of release. This means getting software and hardware to work together takes some time after the point of release. That's the reason for the various bugs to begin with and it should eb noted you can't say an OS is good or bad until it's "Matured" through being available for over 9 months.

    The factor of "Legacy support" is another problem.

    Ideally, producing an OS it would be great if you could just wipe legacy out since that's where all the bugs originate and potential exploits. Unfortunately the average person that's going to want to use a new OS, is likely going to want to use their old software, so legacy has to be supported and that's where the bugs/exploits arise.
    (I assume the potential of various "virtual store" methods of purchasing software could in theory negate the legacy problem in the future, if of course the "licensing" of software is "Lifetime" rather than just "version" based.)

    All in all to say a newly released OS is doomed is just something that parroted as a mob mentality by people ignorant of the both the effort put into making an OS and the reasons for such changes. I wouldn't suggest reading any persons "view" as a "review", until they have at least tried the OS and allowed the 9 month gracing period for drivers to be written and patches applied.
     
  8. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    Thanks, Geoff. What's ITB?
     
  9. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    I knew that

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    I don't like macs either.
     
  10. darksidZz Valued Senior Member

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    Windows 8 isn't bad with Start8 and ModernMix, this basically makes it Windows 7 with annoying features of Metro UI. It's ok but I am thinking Ubuntu is more promising for future development now. Microsoft plans to go closed source and get licensing restrictions in place so it's not really making a lot of sense to stay with in the future.
     
  11. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

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    Update:
    The PC I was waiting for arrived, so I've been messing around with Windows 8. It initially came with an OEM load, however it just required adding the License key and activation.

    To begin with I was greeted with the Metro-UI which people have complained about, Initially I clicked a systems settings link in that to bring up the desktop, however there was a fairly large icon with Desktop written on it.
    When clicked the Desktop comes to the foreground and it really isn't much different from Windows XP/Vista/7 in regards to having a taskbar. As mentioned by others the "Start" button is missing, however before you curse too much you can right click the taskbar and toggle on, Toolbars > Desktop Doing so creates a little double arrow (which can extend messily if in an unlocked taskbar), the double arrow pretty much gives you access to your folders, recycle bin and the Control panel. the bottom left corner to gain some of the components you might have been use to.

    While I quickly was able to identify the similarities and find my way around, I did have some teething problems with using a USB WLAN stick, while it appeared that no extra drivers were needed, for some reason it wasn't functioning correctly (It would connect to the router but have no internet access, or just be super slow and breakdown). This could of been down to the default settings having the adapter set for IPv6, in any case it was the main problem for a couple of hours of trying to get it to work.

    In the end it did eventually work, it was likely some setting problem in either it's configuration or with the Wifi router itself.

    This allowed me to do two things that were important, One being "Activating Windows" (I was concerned that not being able to activate it was causing the problem) and the other important thing being doing the Updates for the OS. (640+mb) Once downloaded and installed the system stated that it would set itself to reboot in 2 days if I didn't want to reboot it right then. (I guess they are implying the OS is now stable enough to leave on for long durations)

    While the desktop handles exactly how you'd expect, the Metro interface has a few quirks, first off Microsoft has attempting to put a whole bunch of stuff in one place (likely meant for those of you that use phones/tablets for emailing, messaging, sharing photos etc) Most of it is interconnected with Microsofts account system. Some of it is actually directly related to components that were added to the XBOX 360 interface, in fact you can login using your XBOX 360 userid and use the some of the same apps you'd have on your XBOX. (For instance Microsoft's video rental system etc) It extends beyond just the XBOX components however with more Travel and Finance related applications.

    You can't play DVD's however unless you have the Pro/Media version, this is apparently due to the world moving to Streaming Media (Which I stated would happen back during the HD-DVD vs Blu-ray format war) It doesn't mean you can't find third party software to be able to fit the bill.

    There is of course a difference between the Free applications and the ones you pay extra for, however it's really about the user deciding what they want on their computer system rather than just having too much bloated un-necessary software.

    Lastly I didn't have an SD drive fitted, however it is suggested that it's possible to have the OS boot in around 2 seconds on some systems. So it's alot quicker at boot-up.

    I can't see Windows 8 as being a "flawed operating system" like some people have suggested, all it suggests is those that complained likely didn't know how to use it.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2013
  12. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    My biggest complaint with Windows 8, as a technician, is some of the stupid choices they made with it. They've moved certain file locations and system options around which have been in the same place since, literally, Windows 95. Also, the Metro interface doesn't make a lick of sense if you don't have a touch-capable device... and on a laptop touchpad, those damn Gestures make me want to smash the damn thing (if you accidentally swipe your finger from off the touchpad onto it, it immediately swaps windows... and this is INCREDIBLY easy to do for someone who prefers a mouse to a touchpad).

    On a touch-capable device, like the Acer R7, it's actually quite nice and well designed. Though I still hate that if you boot Windows 8 to another OS, it nukes the Volume Shadow Copies... which Windows 8 seems to rely on for about 70% of it's system repair/restore functionality... argh.
     
  13. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

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    Touch screens have always been a pain, I've seen my sisters touchscreen PC being operated by a fly and the Xbox connect being controlled by a AC Fan. (They've still a way to come for adapting the sensitivity levels)
     
  14. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    No doubt touch screens have their issues - but if you are going to run Win8, a touch screen is nearly a necessity to use it how it was designed
     
  15. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

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    A touch screen isn't necessary, I've been using it with a mouse with no problems. Once you've got passed the "Metro" interface and into desktop, it's just the same as any other windows, although there are still difficulties in getting to various places with ease, but theres workarounds (and a pending patch for putting a startbutton back for those that missed it)
     
  16. andy1033 Truth Seeker Valued Senior Member

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    Thats interesting, i wonder how much designs of new computer monitors have thought about that, as there are always these things on computers. I have never seen anyone mention it before, shows you techs are different in real world to labs.
     
  17. Absane Rocket Surgeon Valued Senior Member

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    You're probably the only person I've ever heard say that. Where I work the majority of people use XP or Vista. I hear way more complaints about the latter than I do the former. BSOD...? heh.
     
  18. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

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    I had my first Windows 8 bluescreen the other day due to an old wifi stick not having decently supported drivers, the new bluescreen now includes a frowny face [

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    ] and then attempts to self-diagnose and repair on reboot. It's not the advent of evil AI that worries me, but that "Smart" bluescreen might become self-aware.
     
  19. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    Cuntidy cunt cuntcunt. What a piece of shit. Cunt cunt bullshit fucking crap cunt shit.
     
  20. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah, BSOD on XP.. Seen that.
    On Vista.. never.
    So, it appears I'm the minority.. fingers crossed then

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  21. Stoniphi obscurely fossiliferous Valued Senior Member

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    My old XP system just died on me beyond recall, it is going to the recycle.

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    Ubuntu 10.4 is doing well, WIN 8 and I are getting along better now, though it still won't recognize Microsoft's signature on updates as valid/safe and frequently crashes after installing those. Both copies of WIN 7 have problematic issues, one just installed IE 10 such that it locks and crashes when I fire it up. :shrug: Can't interact with Microsoft's website with anything but IE, but Microsoft's IE 10 install killed the program necessary to repair/replace/reinstall itself.

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    The other WIN 7 install cannot upload/install MS WIN 7 updates.

    Sure would be nice to have more competition in the OS department. :huh:
     
  22. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

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    From what I can tell, Windows 8 attempts to use a live check against a Microsoft signature database which means having to be online. I've found that an install will throw a sig. failure if it can't access their server from not being online, reattempting the same install while online passes it.

    There were many other linux builds with desktop environments, Ubuntu was just one that gained favour with people, mainly because of the ease it could be installed or run (If running a live distro) I don't really do much in the way of linux anymore, although when I do I'm more for the *BSD range which is more Unix related. (I know it's based on old geek tech, but it's tried and tested)
     

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