World trade centre collapse, 9/11 conspiracy

Discussion in 'Conspiracies' started by someguy1, Nov 4, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Q-reeus Banned Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,695
    NIST's 'accurate' MKII simulation, ostensibly correctly accounting for both fires and structural damage from earlier WTC collapses, very obviously predicts a collapse scenario looking nothing close to the recorded for all to see, actual free-fall of the essentially intact upper stories. NO chaotic puckering collapse there at all, just straight down. Fail.

    Stonewalling all FOI requests for independent access to NIST's simulation code and data, continued on for 20 years, speaks volumes. They obviously have much to keep hidden. The absurd justification given, that releasing their simulation code and data "could endanger public safety", is the exact opposite of any sane reasoning. Or brazen excuse hiding the need for massive fudging/massaging in order to get as close as possible to a predetermined outcome. Goal driven.

    Hulsey's team tried many times to simulate what was observed based on NIST's claimed scenario, but could never get anything other than a highly non-symmetric collapse.
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    39,421
    It's been 20 years. You still don't know that the towers fell more slowly than free fall? Really? After all these years you're still stuck at square one basics like this one?
    You're denying that the outer walls of the towers "puckered"? Despite the abundant footage that shows otherwise? Really?
    Why don't you do your own simulation? Why don't any of you conspiracy nutters do any of your own work, ever?
    Why do you trust Hulsey and not the NIST experts?
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Q-reeus Banned Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,695
    Because for starters Hulsey et. al. have made their simulation code and data freely available for anyone to scrutinize. Nothing to hide. Unlike the criminal culpability implied by NIST's refusal to disclose theirs. REFUSAL!
    The rest of your trash response doesn't deserve answering.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2021
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    39,421
    Have you checked Hulsey's code, personally? If not, why do you believe it is accurate? What does it show, by the way?
    How very Trumpian of you. REFUSAL!

    Why haven't the police arrested the criminals at NIST yet? Why haven't they been prosecuted for their crimes?
    You're never able to refute the most important points in my posts. Most of what you write is just personal insults. That's apparently the best you can do.

    Don't think I didn't notice, by the way, your utter inability or REFUSAL to answer any of the direct questions I put to you - apart from the easy one about Hulsey. FAIL!
     
  8. David C On planet earth Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    445
    Who is "et al", can you list them please. It almost makes it sound that it was more qualified people involved.

    You missed this below deliberately?

    The building was burning everywhere, out of control, the fire crews reported this, the footage shows this. How the hell does demolition material survive that? Then we have the breathtakingly obvious - what was the actual point of bringing down the building when it was pretty much going to be a burnt out husk anyway - with almost 100% guaranteed need for it to be demolished anyway?

    Detailed answer please, preferably one that doesn't involve splattering paper all over Manhattan. Please don't embarrass yourself by talking about confidential documents needing destroying (the fire - duh) or some idiotic nonsense about insurance claims (building was burnt out anyway).
     
  9. Q-reeus Banned Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,695
    Why reveal your feigned idiocy so openly? The code and data are freely available, obviously for a team of highly experienced experts in the relevant fields to examine for fidelity. Something for instance those commissioned by NIST to generate their flawed simulations, should be up to. But all too predictably, it's a hot potato afaik all outside of Hulsey's team have so far avoided.Word gets around as to how those questioning the Official Line do career wise. Not well.
    You have already been told what it shows - NIST's simulations are predetermined goal driven crap, that NIST's best effort fudges cannot hide without looking to be outright sci-fi absurdity.
    How about - protected from above, by the criminal cabal that gave them their clear agenda, requiring an outcome close enough to the Official Story to pass muster with an ill-informed public.
    And of course having been given carte blanche by that same cabal to refuse all FOI requests for disclosure of their simulation code and data, including assumptions used. Inexcusable.

    Your not-so-innocent question is of course just bait to allow yet another 'conspiracy theorist' jibe.
     
  10. Q-reeus Banned Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,695
    No I didn't miss. The full reasons for bringing WTC 7 (and WTC's 1 & 2) down via controlled demolition are obviously only known to the criminal cabal responsible. You hint at awareness of some potential motivations re WTC 7, and of course dismiss them as 'crazy'. Just like the extremely lucrative windfall garnered by 'lucky' Larry Silverstein's 'lucky' decision to insure both WTC 1 & 2 for billions each, specifically including acts of terrorism, just 6 weeks ahead of the 'unfortunate and unpredictable' 9-11 collapse of both towers 1 & 2. Throw in just for good measure, his (and - 'amazingly', both his children's) even more extraordinarily 'lucky' decision to miss their habitual routine of lunching together every day at the top of WTC 1. Oh so conveniently cancelled just on that day! Yahweh looking after His Chosen Ones? Or perfidy tragically rewarded - as usual? The latter option fits far better imo.

    David C likely considers those incriminating facts to be 'totally unremarkable'. SURE. Suspiciously timed insurance policies involving WTC 7 demolition otoh seem nonexistent. A red herring.

    As for the other participants in developing and running the UAF simulations, are you seriously saying you never bothered to find out? Not hard:
    https://ine.uaf.edu/wtc7
    Unlike the undisclosed but likely many millions of $$s available to NIST, UAF study was on a lean budget and had to make every $ count.
     
  11. David C On planet earth Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    445
    Wait what!! You say WTC7 was demolished but have no explanation for why? It's a secret because you lot say so and nobody knows the truf.

    For quite compelling reasons. The building got battered on one side with chunks of WTC1/2 material and caught fire. It burnt for most of the day, almost gutted out.

    So Larry did it? Do you hate the jooos? Do you?

    Did a WTC Leaseholder Buy Terrorism Insurance Just Before 9/11? | Snopes.com

    So lucky Larry knew that big chunks were going to hit WTC7 and it would burn out of control for the entire day and the explosives unbelievably managed to survive this maelstrom?

    Well I was waiting to see if you had determined how qualified they were, what with both of them being bridge engineers - et al. - makes it sound so special doesn't it.
     
  12. Q-reeus Banned Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,695
    • This post tries to allege a conspiracy, based on the identification of Mr Silverstein as Jewish. It is anti-semitic, insulting and unacceptable. Hate speech will not be tolerated on sciforums.
    Hating people, individually or collectively, vs despising their actions and/or worldviews, are two different things. Anyway, turns out Lucky Larry actually made a tidy net profit from WTC 7 insurance payout:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy..._a_reminder_that_larry_lucky_silverstein_who/
    Not that even the billions from WTC 1 & 2 payouts was the main aim. Instead - likely gaining total control over the premises leading up to that 'unexpected event'. Private ownership having never before been granted. All pure coincidence of course.
    Only ratbag twoofers would smell a rat there! How silly!

    Such truly amazing luck though his wife insisted he visit his dermatologist on the day. Naturally his son and daughter just had to cancel their customary Top-Of-The-World lunch appointment too! Yahweh be exalted!
     
  13. David C On planet earth Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    445
    But how in any crazy world does he plan chunks of burning building smack into WTC7 and burn it for the whole day? Is logic that hard for you?

    Exactly, one day you may get to genuinely realise it, like everybody else not crazily obsessed about this oh, 20 years later!

    How do you know this? Because they let on about it. Now why would they do that? Are you one of these daft twooofers who thinks "pull it" was not about the fire?
     
  14. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    21,643
    It did pucker. The penthouse collapsed first. Then the center. Then the sides. Then the entire building. Watch the video if you don't believe me.

    You fail miserably. Your claim doesn't even match reality.
     
  15. Q-reeus Banned Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,695
    Too much time spent responding to disingenuous posters. I'm out.
     
  16. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    21,643
    That's probably for the best. A science forum is not the best place for this sort of woo.
     
  17. psikeyhackr Live Long and Suffer Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,223
    Especially a science forum that can dismiss the distributions of steel and concrete to the point of not wanting the data.
     
  18. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,959
    Right. Cuz this science forum is the outlier when it comes to 9/11. All the other science forums apparently have all the data you can take. Why don't you bring it here?

    Still waiting for your alternate ideas. Still waiting for the slightest whiff of evidence to support them. Not holding our breath.
    After all, you've had twenty years.
     
  19. psikeyhackr Live Long and Suffer Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,223
    I am not the one who put it in the outlier. It is not my fault that some people cannot figure out that skyscrapers must hold themselves up. Some people cannot put the core in their diagrams while trying to prove something about center of gravity.
     
  20. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,959
    So redraw the diagram yourself to make your point.

    Oh that's right, you only tear down discussion, you don't contribute constructively.

    The diagram is fine without internal detail. Remember what you said: you don't care about lateral distribution - only vertical distribution. And you were right there. The inclusion or exclusion of a core structure in an analysis will not have any effect on the CoG, since it's laterally symmetrical.


    But it doesn't matter. You will not contribute anything constructive or illuminatory. Your raison d'etre is destructive and obfuscatory. Prove me wrong. Draw a diagram. Explain it and describe what you expect to happen that didn't happen. I won't hold my breath.
     
  21. psikeyhackr Live Long and Suffer Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,223
    • Please do not troll. If you cannot support a claim, you ought to retract it and apologise to your readers.
    Why would I do that?

    I would prefer that you advertise your incompetence.
     
  22. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,959
    Perfect. You just freely acknowledged that you are more interested in trolling the thread than in discussing the thread topic.

    You're done.
     
  23. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    21,643
    Yep. That's been clear for the last dozen or so pages.

    PKH: "Here is an ERROR I think is present in the simulation! But they refuse to release the data on the error!"
    Us: "So run your own simulation. Show us the math."
    PKH: "Uh, yeah, about that. . . . look, here's ANOTHER error that I think is present!"
     
    DaveC426913 likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page