View Full Version : what is prejudice?
07-09-01, 12:45 PM
I am a single white male of 31 years. I sometimes think I would like to chage carears, or go back to school, but with bills I can not afford to drop everything to do it, i would need financial aid. Now the problems star. 1st I make too much money to get aid. Second the scholarships which are available do not include just a normal everyday white male. I am not a minority, I am not a female, I do not have a disability, I am not an ex-con, or a foreign national. Result, very little to be had in this catagory.
These thought are not intended and should not be construed to indicate my negative feelings to any of the types of people listed above. I am extremely tolorant of ALL races, creeds colors whatever. I just can't figure out why it seems that my disability is being me................
Hmm... Maybe there is some Native American or African American hiding within your family tree. We know that minorities in the USA are not pure blooded.
I dunno. Do they go by percentages when assessing your minority status?
07-09-01, 04:39 PM
I know they go by percentage when assessing who is/is not native american...I believe it is 1/8th, but I could be wrong...
And how is being a white male a disability? All of the aid programs out there are simply there to overcome the disadvantages encountered by minorities, which do exist, whether or not you (as a white male) see them.
Gee, randalllee ... I really feel for you.
But then being a Korean War vet. made it easy for me - All I had to do was first take a chance on getting killed.
Come to think of it, there's your answer: Sign up for four years!
The incentives, including tuition for an education, aren't that bad.
I agree there are disadvantages pressent to minorities. I, however, believe at this point divisions in the country are more economic then anything else. Minorities have less available too them because in the past due to prejudice and racism they were confined only to lower economic status. The problem at this point is being able to rise out of the lower class up to the middle class or higher. A rich or upper middle class minority does have to deal with racism, but there is not many barriers to his or her success.
The problems faced by minorities in this day and age I believe are more of a problem of past prejudice as opposed to any current prejudice problem. Don't get me wrong I know prejudice still exists, but it is much less of a problem at this point.
I think because it is difficult to rise out of lower class status that any minority financial aid or scholarship money is a good thing. However, I also think these programs do need to be extended too a wider range of people as well. Money for education is an investment in human capital and the more money provided for higher education the better. Don't cut off the minority aid, but also expand educational aid as well. The only way the USA is going to maintain a high level of growth is to shift to more human capital oriented industries.
07-10-01, 02:07 AM
Financial aid for all that need it is a good idea, very noble and all...Unfortunately, we live in the real world, and we cannot afford to give financial aid to everyone.
This means we have to decide who gets it, and who doesn't...I agree with the thought that those that start off disadvantaged should get the aid.
Randall Lee started off the post saying that he was above the income level cutoff, meaning he has the money, and that he is not a woman or a person of color, meaning sexism or racism is not going to be a barrier.
Financial aid doesn't need to be just income transfers for tuition. Subsidized stafford loans could be extended to more people, in higher income brackets. The highest cost involved with subsidized stafford loans is the risk of defaulting on the loan. It would make sense to those with higher income that this potential risk is lower. The only monetary cost of subsidized stafford loan programs is the interest cost, which is not high.
I never expected anyone to pay for my education with anything more than a subsidized loan. I was rather upset when I stopped qualifying for subsidized loans because my older brother finished college and my expected family contribution doubled. My parents are not in a high income bracket, and at the time I was in an income bracket below $10,000. The cutoff for subsidized loans is too low. I had to rely on unsubsidized loans for my last two years of school. If subsidized loans were extended and more tax breaks were given for tuition for higher education these are benefits that could be realized by the higher income white male demographic and would be a low cost subsidy for education.
This only takes into account the public sector. If more companies offered tuition reinbursement in exchange for brief maybe one or two years of service with the company, education would be more available. Not only would this help the individual it would benefit companies by having a higher skilled workforce. This is another source of education funds that is available to a full demographic and is not based on income or ethnicity.
In my opinion the cost using government funds for education is below the benefits, so as long as benefits exceed costs allocating more government funds should be done.
It should be an option for all. There's no excuse for anyone to be denied the opportunity to further their education. How sad this is.
To begin with, I think I'll draw a little fire or at least start some controversy. If we ever reach the point where everyone says there is no discrimation I'll roll over in my grave. It certainly won't be before.
No selfrespecting equal rights movement will ever say our job is done. Not while there is the possibility to get something more. Not only that but to do so would mean the end of all such movements and organizations.
For blacks, who are about 13% of the total population (last time I heard), there exists a huge amount of (shall we call them) equalizers. Way out of proportion to the amount of the population represented.
Now no one gave me an education. They layed it out but it was for me to get. If I didn't want it no one can make me (or you). That was the same deal for everyone. Further, my folks were not rich or even middle class. If I wanted to go to school that was up to me. Well I did. I worked summers, holidays, and weekends. From dawn to dusk, later if I could. I bussed 50 miles to school, and generally busted my butt to get it. I had a tech course so it was 48 semester hours the first and 50 the second. It was not easy nor was it given. I simply wanted it. I am not saying this for sympathy I am saying this because there was a will so there was a way.
Later I attended Uncle Sam's college if you will. I got another education and not the kind they give in school. When I got out I went back to school courtesy of the same uncle.
I still go to school for my work. I look forward to it. I still want it and this late in life I don't think I'll change.
I too would not qualify for finanical help. I learned the computer and related programs myself. I bought the manuals (about 12) I read them and I put them to work. So it's there. You still have to want it. I may not be able to afford school now but I'm still after an education. It's a life long endeavor.
Eh, it's more about money than it is about education.
And it was then to. I didn't have it. I had to get it. Someone always has to pay in whatever form.
our resources are squandered on so many useless things, Wet. One that comes to mind is the new push for a missile defense program. I'm sure you can think of many others which we now pay the price. How would our society be better served if those taxes were used to educate our children.
You were forced to slave for your education, Wet; and you live in the richest country in the world. Why?
The world will never go according to all our wishes and wants. There are things we all agree that is good and all agree is not good. At this point comes the parting of the ways. What one sees as necessary the next sees as frivilous. I guess what I was saying was that if you truely want something and focus yourself towards that goal to the exclusion of all else it is obtainable. But in the long run it is up to you. No amount of programs will give that to those who do not want it. You can not mandate that everyone will have an education if they don't want it and get the truely educated. You have only to look at public school systems to see.
Okay. But those who want an education should not be required to fight for it. The <b>OPPORTUNITY</b> should be equal for <b>ALL</b>. Once again, we see the shit sandwitch--the more bread you have...
don't get me wrong. I can appreciate your efforts, but I think it a shame that you didn't have the same advantages as say, uhm, someone who is black.
Ah, now to the point. I think to start we all have the same oppurtunity. Only, you have to reach for it, otherwise itis like a book and just lays there. Any idea how a teacher notices when a student begins to get it on there own? All school can do is say here it is. The rest is up to the student.
<i>"All school can do is say here it is. The rest is up to the student.</i>
Providing the student can pay for the service. But then again, if you are classified as a minority, the taxpayer will catch the bill. you don't even need the same desire and drive that the other kid has.
If we desire equality, then let us offer education to all, without the artificial requirements that determine who is more deserving. There are so many who desire school but have not the resources to explore higher education.
It truly is about the money. Isn't it.
Money answers it, yes. If you throw enough at it then sooner or later something will happen. (Adminstrator absconds with the funds) Actually I believe more than that would be required. This goes deeper than just money.
You see; there needs to be a fundamental change in the views and viewpoints of what is valued. A readjustment. From the public-at-large there needs to be the upholding of college and higher education as a necessary, desirable, and sought after goal. One that is a necessary burden for the funding with taxes. There has to be the push from the public towards government and politicians for them to respond and enact such programs that see to the general education level.
Government will not want to do so as it takes from the funds that they wish to spend elsewhere. It’s hard to finance research on the missile defense if it has to go to education. The politicians are in the same boat. Not as much pork barrels if the funds are going elsewhere. The public is already saddled with ruinous taxes. They will not want more unless there is a good reason that they support. Most are already tired of seeing what comes out of their paychecks before they get it.
On the bright side…
Business is beginning to require that applicants have a college education. And even when they get them they will still have to educate their workers to do what it is that is required. More and more the jobs are technical, info driven, and a ditch digger will not fill the bill. (Nothing wrong with ditch diggers other than there are not as many needed and prospects for advancement into other areas is limited.)
To have a college education commands higher pay. From the start of employment, throughout the working life of the individual. Last account I had it was in the neighborhood of an additional $15k to $35k to start. As the worker grows into the job he becomes more valuable. This increases his worth to the employer even more with corresponding increases in his net worth. This drives the tax base for government into a better position.
But when all is said and done you go back to the “Here it is on a platter” and the individual still has to step up to the plate and take it. If s/he doesn’t then you are no better off than when you started.