I am asking whom is your favorite zen philospher and what did u learn from them. Mine is Taisen Deshimaru who studied who passed on in 1982. I only have one of his books but have read a lot more of stuff though none of it recently. I still have his book "the zen way to the martial arts." On page 76 of that book is a chapter on sutemi which, as George Leonard (the translater and aikido sensei) puts it means abandon body. At the time I was reading the book I was in college and was toying with kickboxing and just deciding I was going to apply to the school of business to pursue my degree. I had been in college for about 18 months at that time.

My major obstacle with kickboxing (actually the kickboxing part may be ironic cause TD was not very keen on sport fighting), was spending a lot of time on thinking and working on not get hit so much so that I was not working so much on swatting with the other guy. It was pka style meaning full contact with boxing gloves...like a boxing match with footmitts on. I was also under a lot of stress when applying to the business school and had just gotten a "D" in a business class and was thinking of going back to the school of sociology which was sure to accept me as I had a an A and 2 B's in the first three sociology classes I had taken.

I was reading his chapter on sutemi which has to do with sacrifice throws in the martial arts. A sacrifice throw is one where you drop to the ground to throw the other person thus sacrificing your standing position. I decided I was going to sacrifice my defense in sparring to mount a better offense by being more aggressive and in school I decided I was going to take the business classes (probably sacrificing my gpa ha ha), with an abandoment for one year and see where I sat from there.

Two things happened. One my kickboxing with my change in mentality, improved dramatically within less than a month and I was able to look at it with a more calcuating eye and get pretty good at it. And second after that year was up in which, I never looked back, I did fairly well even getting strong grades in accounting classes and making some very high marks in the management classes.

The thing I like about zen is that it is applicable to life. But being an american

1) there are not many people who know much about it
2) it is discouraged as a substitute for purely rational thinking.

Having said this I figured on an intellectual forum somebody else would have experience with this and if so with what teach and what did u learn?

ahhhh!!! give me a break!! I know someone else on here has read some zen stuff!!!

Alan Watts- although he may not strictly be considered a Zen teacher, his explanations and examples from history worked for me. I also like The Sixth Patriarch Hui Neng, the Chinese poet Cold Mountain and 15th Century Zen Master Ikkyu (author of Crow With No Mouth). And, although his life ended in disgrace, I also greatly admire the Baghwan Shree Rajneesh (now known as Osho) for his extensive writings and sense of humor. They taught me that realization of your own nature is outside of any teaching, it's not esoteric, but immediate, so don't depend on them.

Myself.

Alan Watts.

He got me interested and he made sense in a strange new way. I actually go to see and hear him at UBC before he died

Dogen would be the other one whom I have read and have much admiration for. He is credited with bringing Soto Zen to Japn 800 years ago.
http://www.zenki.com/

I was going to talk a little about what I learned from him but I cannot find my book so I went on the net. I found this

http://members.tripod.com/~chippit/dogen_cubed.html

and wanted to share it instead: If you cannot get the link to work tell me and I will post the whole thing.

The author of that page is Bonnie Myotai Treace Sensei.

Sensei is Japanese for teacher.

A couple of you said Alan Watts.....tell us how you have applied Watt's knowledge to your life...

I just got this emailed to me a qoute from Dogen

"The dharma is such that it cannot be attained by groping or searching about. In the realm of seeing, knowledge perishes. At the moment of attaining, mind is surpassed."

-Dogen, "Moon in a Dewdrop"

A couple of you said Alan Watts.....tell us how you have applied Watt's knowledge to your life...
You don't exactly. This is one of the ways in which his wisdom differs from what we are used to. In the west, one gathers knowledge about life in order to form a sort of strategy, like in sports. When considering a "move", you then go back to your strategy and decide on an acceptable option in light of that knowledge. Taoists call this an inferior form of wisdom. It is useful to a degree, and it is accentuated in Confusionism. In Taoism, the approach is completely different. There is no method, strategy, or knowledge, one cultivates a natural "feeling" (or virtue) for the right move based on what is already within you. There are no fixed objects or ideals to achieve in life. This is also accompanied by an emphasis on personal transformation. Some, like me, believe that when Lao Tzu (said to be legendary the founder of Taoism) left China, he traveled to India, and influenced the Buddha.

Alan Watts for me as well. I read his "The Book : On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are" back in High School, and have always made sure a copy is on my bookshelves ever since.

I've read other works of his as well (and many along the same vein by different authors), but this was the first work of its kind I'd read - and so probably the most influential on me.

Get Real!!
Do Research Before Posting Or You Will Make An Ass Of Yourself!! Got It?

http://elies.harbers.com/pics%5Cdonkey%20shrek.jpg
Oh my god, Hideki Matsumoto was right. You are my new favorite Zen master!

True story:

I was down at the local solid waste transfer station towards the end of the summer - a place where garbage and recyclables are taken before they go off to a landfill. Nasty place - big building full of garbage, unspeakable smell, pigeons and noisy machinery. I was hauling my contribution in and stopped to talk to one of the guys who works there. He was a big grizzled guy who probably smelled just as bad as the building we stood in. I made some small talk about the weather, and how hot it could get in the garbage building, and he replied "Rain, heat, snow... it's all good.".

He really meant it, and it was one of those moments that made me remember that we can find zen expression almost anywhere.

The kind of centered Zen-like happiness with whatever circumstances nature throws your way, are something I think we all individually envy sometimes. Though, I also think perhaps if too many of our citizens felt this way - they would perhaps be far easier even then they already are to exploit by corporations/governments . . . just smiling and happily putting up with whatever conditions they were subjected to.

Though, at the same time - perhaps the power structure would be threatened because a population who was centered and happy would likely be less competitively consumerist and greedy . . . . wanting a bigger SUV than their neighbor, always wanting the latest and greatest, and etc. I don't know, its an interesting question. Maybe corporate/government powers would love to have zen-like happiness in their lowest level wage slaves . . . but want their middle class and wealthy to be constantly scrabbling and consuming in the search for happiness?

To study Zen is not to ignore everything around you or to put up with anything because you have Zen-like happiness. If anything corporations would be completely destroyed because if everyone possessed the empty mind of Zen then corporations would have nothing to offer them.

In response to the actually thread....I have really enjoyed reading the works of Nishida and Hisamatsu, and have enjoyed studying under Fukushima Roshi. In terms of how I could apply these things to my life I think this is a poorly worded question. For how can you apply the way things already are to your life? There is nothing to apply. Zen only shows us how to see what we already are.

Ah -- possibly. Though its also pretty clear that what it means to ''study zen'', what Zen ''shows you'' and such is not so easy to define. The term itself eludes easy definition. Or else, why the thousands of books pointing out, among other things, just how personal and slippery it is?

So lets not pretend to quickly define what it is or isn't to study/know/be/fish zen. :)

I'm not entirely sure how you took anything I said about Zen as easily defining it. I can assure that I completely agree. I would go a step further and say that there is nothing to define, that Zen is undefinable. To define Zen or to know Zen would simply be to have missed Zen in the first place. I was merely saying that my image of Zen is that Zen shows us what we already are, it points to nothing new, nothing is revealed in Zen. Or maybe in better words Zen is the attempt to hear the silence of our own being. There is nothing simple about that. Thanks.

I like Alan Watts' stuff myself, though I quickly ended up replacing him with Thich Nhat Hanh: I get more from his books than from Alan's. No offence to Alan at all, just more my style.

Well said Mushin. Very simple and infinatly complex. :)

I'm not entirely sure how you took anything I said about Zen as easily defining it. I can assure that I completely agree. I would go a step further and say that there is nothing to define, that Zen is undefinable. To define Zen or to know Zen would simply be to have missed Zen in the first place. I was merely saying that my image of Zen is that Zen shows us what we already are, it points to nothing new, nothing is revealed in Zen. Or maybe in better words Zen is the attempt to hear the silence of our own being. There is nothing simple about that. Thanks.

There is nothing simpler than that!!!

The point is as I think was pointed out previously, that Zen is undefineable. Zen is often described as a state of non-thought. And if we are to take this concept as a description of Zen then we are ultimately getting stuck in a paradox. We can not think about non-thought.

And to speak about Zen requires language and thought (=constructs of language), therefore we cannot speak about Zen. Because language without thought is just words, essentialy sounds. Language cannot be used to express Zen.

Zen can only be a subjective experience, you cannot recieve it the way we recieve knowledge and understanding through language. You have to experience it yourself.

You can only point at the door and all that shite. Obvious Zen stuff. I'm just pointing out that talking about Zen is paradoxical.

My words mean nothing, and that is the point. There is no point, and that is the point... The point is contained within itself. Point and non-point.

Ah finaly I'm enlightened.

Talking about a tree is not a substitute for a tree



Exsto Human wrote:
Zen can only be a subjective experience, you cannot recieve it the way we recieve knowledge and understanding through language. You have to experience it yourself.
What you say is true, but it also true of, say, shooting marbles.
Shooting marbles is a subjective experience, you cannot receive the skill of shooting marbles the way you receive knowledge and understanding from talking about something. You have to actually shoot marbles yourself.
Still, we can talk about shooting marbles and gain an understanding. It is not the same as shooting marbles, but it is better than not knowing about marbles.


Also: I'm just pointing out that talking about Zen is paradoxical.
Truth can be (some would say, is) paradoxical.
Talking about Zen can also be dangerous. Is there anything more dangerous than an open mind?
I will not stop talking about Zen just because it is dangerous, nor because it is paradoxical. This does make the discussion more difficult, but we do not seek Zen because it is easy.

There are concepts associated with Zen than can be initiated by the use of words. In the end, as you say, words will do no good, but in the beginning they may show the path. If you can’t find the path, you will never find the Way.

It is said that Zen is not the Way, not the path, but a finger pointing the way to the path.
If this is true, and I certainly believe it is, words can be the finger that points to Zen. You are warning us to not mistake the finger for the Zen and we would do well to heed that suggestion.

If we want Zen, we will not get it from talking about it. That is because Zen is an experience. Zen is not special in that respect. We can not experience any experience by talking about it. Discussing something is not a substitute for living it. I can not teach you how to ski by talking about it. However, I can give you understanding about problems you might encounter and tips to make things easier for you. There is value in preparation for the journey.
We all know that reading the map is not the same as taking the trip. That is what you have told us.



My intro book was Zen in the Art of Archery, by Eugen Herrigel. It hooked me good.
D.T. Suzuki and his various translated works worked well for me.
Lao Tzu often showed up in my readings and I always got a lot out of his stories.
I tend to read collected works with stories from the early Patriarchs (first millennium).
Baba Ram Dass is not strictly Zen, but fits in there somewhere.
I never got much out of Alan Watts and the Beat Zen.
Never connected with Thomas Merton either.

A special transmission outside the scriptures;
Depending not on words and letters;
Pointing directly to the human mind;
Seeing into one's nature, one becomes a Buddha.

Agree with BeHereNow.

Check out DT Suzuki
Daisetz Teitaro Suzuki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D.T._Suzuki

Especially "An Introduction to Zen Buddhism"

Also Ram Dass, especially for meditation techniques (more so than Zen).

I like Suzuki too.

I'm still hesitant about reading or talking too much about Zen.

Of course as you say BeHereNow, perhaps in order to find Zen we must find out that it exists, i.e. talk or read about it. But inevitably, knowing about Zen is not Zen. Your idea of Zen separates you from the state of Zen.

What the hell do I know about it?

MU!

Jiddhu Krishnamurti - who made me see that I was a ordinary human being just like himself and that I have been conditioned since birth into the personallity that I wear like a second skin. The words that made me start to see the illusion, that the I creates, that I had created. To eventually see that I was continuing that illusion by seeking the answer outside of myself.

" if you start to breath in a certain way and undertake to sit in a certain posture. You also start to be caught up in a game that has been played in the far east for thousands of years". As I now see the same game that Christianity is playing in the west.

I resigned my twenty year involvement with Buddhism and ceased all of my Soto Zen rituals, practices and affectations and left the game. Eventually I appreciated that K. would have to go as well.

In 1996 I went to visit my 21 year old son who took me with his friends to a club. I was surprised to see my son start techno/trance dancing and surprised myself by joining in when he invited me to and we danced non-stop for two hours. That night was to totally change my life and krishnamurti was gone.

Like Khrishnamurti my only concern now is to help set humankind absolutely and unconditionally free.

I'm still hesitant about reading or talking too much about Zen.
I understand your concern exsto_human. It is well taken.
Certainly there are varying points of view on this subject.
The reading below expresses my view, and certainly carries more authority than my opinion.

Is Zen completely unintelligible?
[A reading from The Practice of Zen, by Chang Chen-Chi, c. 1959 (Rider & Company, London)]
(pgs 127-128)

The fate of Zen as vital knowledge and spiritual truth depends upon how this question is answered, for if - as some authors have repeatedly emphasized – Zen is incomprehensible and irrational, how can any human being understand it? If all conceptual knowledge and intellection have to be abandoned, the enlightened Zen Masters of the past must have been complete fools.

But history shows otherwise. These Masters were wiser than the average, no only in their knowledge of Zen, but also in the many other subjects as well. Their brilliant achievements in art, literature, and philosophy were indisputably of the first order, and stand out prominently in all fields of Chinese Culture. Then it is possible that the mistake in presenting Zen made by some authors lies in their failure to distinguish between ‘to understand’ and ‘to realize’. To understand a thing does not mean to realize it. To understand Zen through an intellectual approach should not be confused with the direct realization of Zen Truth. Thus what they ought to have said is not that ‘to understand Zen’, but, instead, that ‘to realize Zen, one must abandon all one has acquired by way of conceptual knowledge’ (in certain stages). To understand the wonderfully cold, sweet, and palatable taste of ice cream is not to have actually experienced that taste. To understand it as cold, sweet and palatable, but not bitter, hot, or pungent is comparable to understanding Zen as being direct rather than indirect, immediate rather than abstract, and transcendent rather than dualistic.

To understand Zen through an intellectual approach is not ‘reprehensible’, but is the only way possible for the beginner, for, who can get into Zen without having first some understanding or ‘conceptual knowledge’ about it? There is no exception to this for anyone. (emphasis added)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~
BHN: In order to abandon all one has acquired by way of conceptual knowledge, one must first have that conceptual knowledge.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~
A special transmission outside the scriptures;
Depending not on words and letters;
Pointing directly to the human mind;
Seeing into one's nature, one becomes a Buddha.

Technoterri, it was very interesteing to see your reply. I have read some of J.K.'s writings and take his teaching that truth is a pathless land very much to heart. Like you (were) I am also involved in Zen Buddhism, but unlike you I cannot see the contradiction.

Surely, the real answer must always come from within. And though Zen is an old tradition and may come with a baggage, Buddhism has always had plenty of great characters who were not afraid of findng their own way in the pathless land.

Why do you think it has to be a game and an affectation?


Jiddhu Krishnamurti - who made me see that I was a ordinary human being just like himself and that I have been conditioned since birth into the personallity that I wear like a second skin. The words that made me start to see the illusion, that the I creates, that I had created. To eventually see that I was continuing that illusion by seeking the answer outside of myself.

" if you start to breath in a certain way and undertake to sit in a certain posture. You also start to be caught up in a game that has been played in the far east for thousands of years". As I now see the same game that Christianity is playing in the west.

I resigned my twenty year involvement with Buddhism and ceased all of my Soto Zen rituals, practices and affectations and left the game. Eventually I appreciated that K. would have to go as well.

In 1996 I went to visit my 21 year old son who took me with his friends to a club. I was surprised to see my son start techno/trance dancing and surprised myself by joining in when he invited me to and we danced non-stop for two hours. That night was to totally change my life and krishnamurti was gone.

Like Khrishnamurti my only concern now is to help set humankind absolutely and unconditionally free.

Oh, and I'm not sure about the favourite teacher, but at the moment I like Huang Po (an old chinese Zen (or Ch'an) monk - one can find a translation by Blofield), my 1-year-old son and a locan Zen nun called Chi Kwang (not available in print form, yet).

Osho. I never followed his teachings while he was alive. In fact, it wasn't until years later that I began to read his writings. I believe he possessed one of the most profound spiritual minds in centuries.

Odd thing is, I came to this conclusion without ever having heard him speak. And, when I finally did hear one of his speeches on tape, I'm sure that, had I first heard him speak before ever picking up one of his books, I never would have done so. His speaking style is a complete turn-off to me, which goes to show how outer appearances and style can often keep us from enjoying a precious gem that resides deeper within.

So, why is he my favorite Zen teacher? He was able to do what has always been my aim: perceive the truth within the boundaries of any and all religions. It has always been my belief that a truly awakened individual will not be bound to one framework for explaining Truth. Osho could explain the path from a Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, Taoist, and any number of other, perspectives.

Truth and the nature of reality is not bound within Zen or Buddhism, or any single path. Osho is the only person I have ever "known" who could penetrate the heart of any religion to explain its essence and how it leads to the One. An exceedingly rare quality!

Ron

That's a really eloquent post, Utonian! I've heard a fair bit of negative publicity associated with Osho, but you words broke through that.

Osho, (formerly the cult leader Baghwan Shree Rajneesh) is a good writer, but not well respected among the Buddhist establishment. I have several of his books, and admire him greatly. His books on Jesus are interesting and thought provoking. Unfortunately, his teaching is tainted by the scandals surrounding his commune in Oregon. Perhaps every real teacher is scandalous in some way, or he was the victim of a CIA plot to discredit him, I don't know. I'd say read him and judge for yourself. I especially like "Autobiography of a Spiritually Incorrect Mystic".


THE WISE MAN WANTS YOU ONLY TO HAVE INSIGHT INTO THINGS, so that you have your own light. But you don't want insight, you want clear cut instructions. You don't want to see for yourself, you want to be guided. You don't want to accept your responsibility toward yourself, you want to throw the whole responsibility on the shoulders of the master, on the shoulders of the wise man. Then you feel at ease. Now he is responsible; if something goes wrong, he is responsible. And everything is going to be wrong, because unless you take your responsibility, nothing is ever going to be right.

i'll vote for suzuki also, except the 'little' one; shunryu. he wrote: 'you should be like a frog always.'

does a frog know it's a frog?

It has no idea of a frog, therefore it is fully frog. But if you want to be sure, go and ask one.

does a frog know it's a frog?
according to shunryu, no, a frog has no idea of itself. but it sits like us. thereby a frog being the epitome of buddha-nature realized, we should erect a few statues & teach our kids to worship them. even the ancient hebrews called up the frogs to attack egypt with, knowing their buddha-nature would be against slavery.

I did sculpt a lovely meditating Buddha-frog. I used to cast them in cement. I left one in the mailbox of a Buddhist temple once.

I did sculpt a lovely meditating Buddha-frog. I used to cast them in cement. I left one in the mailbox of a Buddhist temple once.
yeah, we got that. our master gave it a strange look & turned it into rice. very spicy.

Heyup folks.

So I'm a newbie here. have just been reading a little of the thread and found it fun.

I've been enjoying Osho for a long time, and Shunryu Suzuki and Krishnamurti and the gang too.

I was thinking I should mention that I know of a living zen master. I am his disciple (for want of a better word...), and he is very compassionate and funny, and waaaaaaay out there, haha.

Seriously(!) though, he is a love. He is love. haha. But he is though!

Oh man....
Anyway, it's his fortieth birthday today.
He'll be asleep though. he lives in new Zealand.
Any of you guys from out that way?
ok, kiss

A Few Zen Thoughts For Those Who Take Life Too Seriously RE: LJ


Save the whales. Collect the whole set.


A day without sunshine is like night.


42.7 percent of all statistics are made up on the spot.


99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name.


Honk if you love peace and quiet.


Remember, half the people you know are below average.


He who laughs last thinks slowest. (Oops, I get it now!)


Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm.


The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.


I drive way too fast to worry about cholesterol.


Support bacteria. They're the only culture some people have.


A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory


Plan to be spontaneous tomorrow.


Always try to be modest, and be proud of it!


If you think nobody cares, try missing a couple of payments.


OK, so what's the speed of dark?


If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously

overlooked something.


When everything is coming your way, you're in the wrong lane.


Hard work pays off in the future. Laziness pays off now.


Everyone has a photographic memory. Some just don't have film.


If Barbie is so popular, why do you have to buy her friends?


Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet

engines.


Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk?


What happens if you get scared half to death twice?


I used to have an open mind but my brains kept falling out.


Why do psychics have to ask you for your name?


I'm not into working out. My philosophy is no pain, no pain.


I'm in shape. Round is a shape.


I'm desperately trying to figure out why Kamikaze pilots wore helmets.


Do you think illiterate people get the full affect of alphabet

soup?


I've always wanted to be somebody, but I should have been more specific.


Ever notice when you blow in a dog's face he gets mad at you, but when you

take him in a car he sticks his head out the window?


Ever notice that anyone going slower than you is an idiot, but anyone
going

faster than you is a maniac?


One out of every three Americans is suffering from some form of mental

illness. Think of two of your best friends. If they are OK, then it must

be you.


They show you how detergent takes out bloodstains. I think if you've got
a tee shirt with bloodstains all over it, maybe your laundry isn't your
biggest problem.

Get Real!!
Do Research Before Posting Or You Will Make An Ass Of Yourself!! Got It?

Duh?

Re. attached, as a new member, I enjoyed reading your forum post.

From experience, and some very limited reading, this (what you relate) seems to be that way that "it" works: by disengaging you are able re-engage more effectively. It is very mysterious, like looking at a flower. Clarity, understanding, even "knowing", are beyond words.

And one cannot describe "that which 'it' is" because "it" is beyond words.

Enjoy the trip!


I am asking whom is your favorite zen philospher and what did u learn from them. Mine is Taisen Deshimaru who studied who passed on in 1982. I only have one of his books but have read a lot more of stuff though none of it recently. I still have his book "the zen way to the martial arts." On page 76 of that book is a chapter on sutemi which, as George Leonard (the translater and aikido sensei) puts it means abandon body. At the time I was reading the book I was in college and was toying with kickboxing and just deciding I was going to apply to the school of business to pursue my degree. I had been in college for about 18 months at that time.

My major obstacle with kickboxing (actually the kickboxing part may be ironic cause TD was not very keen on sport fighting), was spending a lot of time on thinking and working on not get hit so much so that I was not working so much on swatting with the other guy. It was pka style meaning full contact with boxing gloves...like a boxing match with footmitts on. I was also under a lot of stress when applying to the business school and had just gotten a "D" in a business class and was thinking of going back to the school of sociology which was sure to accept me as I had a an A and 2 B's in the first three sociology classes I had taken.

I was reading his chapter on sutemi which has to do with sacrifice throws in the martial arts. A sacrifice throw is one where you drop to the ground to throw the other person thus sacrificing your standing position. I decided I was going to sacrifice my defense in sparring to mount a better offense by being more aggressive and in school I decided I was going to take the business classes (probably sacrificing my gpa ha ha), with an abandoment for one year and see where I sat from there.

Two things happened. One my kickboxing with my change in mentality, improved dramatically within less than a month and I was able to look at it with a more calcuating eye and get pretty good at it. And second after that year was up in which, I never looked back, I did fairly well even getting strong grades in accounting classes and making some very high marks in the management classes.

The thing I like about zen is that it is applicable to life. But being an american

1) there are not many people who know much about it
2) it is discouraged as a substitute for purely rational thinking.

Having said this I figured on an intellectual forum somebody else would have experience with this and if so with what teach and what did u learn?

P.S. To date, the two best things I read to date are:

"The Diamond Sutra" (itself)

"When the Iron Eagle Flies" - Aya Kema (more Buddhist than Zen, per se).

...
I've been enjoying Osho for a long time, and Shunryu Suzuki and Krishnamurti and the gang too....
J. Krishnamurti, or U.G. Krishnamurti?

Duh?
I already complained to him about that.

Osho have never written a single book - all what he have said come from the lectures he has held over the years.He was extremely funny and intellegent -

Not even "Autobiobraphy of a Spiritually Incorrect Mystic"?

Nature is .

nope

"Drawn from nearly five thousand hours of Osho's recorded talks, this is the story of his youth and education, his life as a professor of philosophy and years of travel teaching the importance of meditation, and the true legacy he sought to leave behind: a religionless religion centered on individual awareness and responsibility and the teaching of "Zorba the Buddha," a celebration of the whole human being."

Life is the greatest teacher he who can look within himself to find answers has aquired the greatest teacher of all.

Learn the Tao

You can't learn the "Tao".

to understand something is to learn of its teachings so if its possible to understand something then you have in ways learnt it but dont pick at petty things would this be better for you?


understand the tao?