why do we think killing is wrong?
a simple question, but what is it. We are just animals and animals kill other animals.
What was that thing that changed our way of thinking to the idea that it is a bad thing to kill a man (not talking about wars here).
Probably it was in the prehistoric times, but still...

stupid question, and an easy short answer (it is wrong), but why...

a simple hard question

say your thoughts
(now I'm too sleepy to say anything more, g'night)

Because your taking away someone from someone else that loves them. And it hurts to lose someone.


We are just animals and animals kill other animals.

They usually do this to survive, human killing humans if for the psychos pleasure, not for survival. Big difference.

Why not kill someone ? Hrmm... I'm drunk right now but I'll give it
a try :) Keep in mind that the exception confirms the rule...

1- Someone, somewhere will have lost someone they love.

2- That person might do something great for humanity in the
future.

I can't think of any other worthwhile reasons for not killing
someone... but hey; if these two reasons don't bother you
don't let them stop you from enjoying the kill :bugeye:

After all, there are some people we could REALLY do without:

- retards
- the average person *

* :D

I think it just slowly became intergrated into society

Could have been a couple of millenia ago, say a chieftains friend was killed by someone and he 'banned' killing, or something like that :confused:

Why do we need morals?

Think about a little man in a jungle who in a sincerely apologetic tone explains to the dead animal he has just slain why it was neccessary to take it's life.

Think about the deep sorrow another man might feel when he witnesses first hand the terrible sight of a hundred Buffalo slaughtered for nothing but thier hides.

Think about the pain of a mother who has lost a child in a senseless war.

Think about things like this, and imagine a man who cares nothing for any of it.

Now, ask yourself a question.

How long do you think the human race would have survived if men like that were the only men there were?

Morals are instinctive. Perhaps we have them so we don't destory the planet we live on, all the life on it, and all the people around us. We are a part of nature, and nature is a very smart lady who ensures that life possesses the instincts that enable it to live in harmony with it's environment. It's all about survival and procreation. Some people say that the conscience is a gift from God, but perhaps it's really a gift from mother nature that is intended to ensure our survival. If only we could remember to listen to her more often.

I believe there is much more to your question, but this might give you something to think about. Unfortunately, the whole bloody can of worms that will split open if I start wondering about why humans are the only species on this planet that can't seem live in harmony with nature is too much for me in this spaced out from a 12 hour day at work state of mind, and so is the endless procession of "why" questions that inevitably follow any answer to any question on any topic like this one when you decide to really think about it.

I apologize if I'm sounding a little nutty. It happens sometimes :)

Morals are instinctive

We are taught morals and pick them up at an early age, but it seems intinctive

Our concept of power and nations ensure that people are killed some way or another

"Why do we think killing is wrong?"

Because we like the pretense that our lives are important.

What hogwash.

Killing is just another method, and "right" and "wrong" are mental training wheels.

why do we think killing is wrong?


It is immediately evident to me that no one has ever tried to kill YOU.

:)


We are taught morals and pick them up at an early age, but it seems intinctive

Do you really believe that if we didn't have a moral code impressed upon us, that we wouldn't have one at all?

Originally posted by machaon
It is immediately evident to me that no one has ever tried to kill YOU.

And you are immediately wrong - 1991 - several times

Do you really believe that if we didn't have a moral code impressed upon us, that we wouldn't have one at all?

Yes, yes I do. Its obvious when you look at young children. They don't see the differance in right and wrong. Parents or Guardians (or in my case, Wolves) have to teach us and disipline us to help us learn.

Yes, yes I do. Its obvious when you look at young children. They don't see the differance in right and wrong. Parents or Guardians (or in my case, Wolves) have to teach us and disipline us to help us learn.

You might be right.

The whole nature vs nurture debate has been done to death, but it's still very interesting. I find myself to be a person who desires to do the right thing. I feel it in my heart, as would most people. As you said, it "seems" instinctive. But I still wonder if that instinct comes only from what I was taught.

If we are not born with a moral compass, our morals still have to come from somewhere. You've answered that question, but when I think about the big picture, I find myself wondering why the human race has them at all. Where did they ultimately come from?


Could have been a couple of millenia ago, say a chieftains friend was killed by someone and he 'banned' killing

As humans, we feel pain when we lose someone we care about. We don't want it to happen again, so we try to make sure it doesn't? Makes sense.

What makes you want to go out of your way to help someone? It makes you feel good? Perhaps we all like to treat other people the way we'd like to be treated ourselves. Perhaps our morals, to a large extent, exist because we empathise with one another.

Empathy. Is that something that is taught and learned, or is it something instinctive we are born with?

Yeah, we've done this whole nature vs nurture thing at school and morals came up :rolleyes:

I always used to think that morals were instincts until I realised where I got them from. But they seem so intinctive, I think thats because they mould our everyday life and its around us all the time


Empathy. Is that something that is taught and learned, or is it something instinctive we are born with?

I think caring about your mother may be instinctive but your father isn't. I'm yet to figure out how to put this into words so bare with me :)

I think empathy is learnt. Unwillingly I might add. We gradually get to like someone, it becomes second nature (<----Thats what I was looking for.)

Right and wrong are definitions only the truly moronic need. People kill when it is convenient. And when they feel empathy for a similar creature that either benefits or is innocuous to them, they have no desire to kill it.

I would like most of the people here dead, along with most of the people on earth. We're overpopulated. More trees!

I love you too Prozak

As long as it's "Dead Jesus Love," I complain not.

Well its not mano-o-mano love nor is it Christian love.

Were prey animals, safety in numbers, same reason gazelles do it. Also if their was a hominid offshoot whose individuals indiscriminately killed other members of their bands they might wipe themselves out before they could be eaten by something bigger and stronger. The ones who get eaten dont reproduce. The tolerant, social, cooperative ones win. I think this taboo is hardwired.

okay,
1> we may be animals but we aint like any other on the planet, if anything we're dumber,

2> given our tendencies, not insticts but tendencies to break, smash, burn, whatever anything we dont like, we would eventually wipe ourselves out

3> at one point or another people realized that animals kick our ass in a fight, this leads to pack behavior

4> this leads us to try to break, smash, burn, whatever anyONE who we dont like in the pack, this is bad cuz then the pack is small and this leads back to 3

5> some wise-ass came up with the idea that if you kill the one who killed in the pack than the pack would learn

6> the survival of pack behavior saved our butts, allowing us to build society and eventually civilization, without the fear of survival constantly consumeing our every thought we have time to ponder other things

7> we discover emotions, specifically pain, as everything is just a state of pain or non-pain and we find that thoughts can induce pain

8> here we are typing on magic boxes trying to remember why it hurts when people die, and why its not cool to kill

to me the answers are kinda obvious

ya know what forget all that, kill em all

Better ;)

Originally posted by Thor
Well its not mano-o-mano love nor is it Christian love.

But is it slippery hamster love?!

What kind of hamster?

What kind of hamster?

"A consenting one."

:eek:

from the alt.pets.hamsters faq:

#b05: What are the different breeds of hamsters that exist?

Most common is the golden hamster... in brackets are the
lengths of each breed.
Chinese hamster (12.5cm)
Common hamster (32cm)
Eversmann's hamster (16.6cm)
Golden hamster (18cm)
Longtailed hamster (16cm)
Migratory hamster (13.5cm)
Mouse-like hamster (16.5cm)
Rat hamster (26cm)
Roborovsky's hamster (9cm)
Rummanian hamster (varies)
Short dwarf hamster (16.6cm)
Striped hairy foot Russian hamster (9cm)
Striped hamster (13cm)
Tibetan hamster (varies)

For more information refer to the Breeder's FAQ. It's
available at:
http://www.pacificrim.net/~ibis/northbow
or e-mail:
ibis@pacificrim.net.

And you are immediately wrong - 1991 - several times

I stand corrected. And I guess we are both lucky to be standing at all.

A scientific perspective:
Answer: We are social "animals". We help each other to survive. Social "animals" never kill each other because they know they are interdependent.

An emotional perspective:
Answer: We don't kill others because we know that to lose someone that we love hurts a lot.
Also, I don't think everyone has courage to kill. I don't think everyone is able to do such thing.

A Spiritual perspective:
Answer: It is against the rule of Love and the Golden Rule of "do not do to others what you don't want to be done to you".

Its wrong to kill other people, not to kill other animals... unless its sport. Im open to killing people as long as there is a greater good. If you can rationalize your actions to an acceptable degree, then kill someone. Otherwise, just chill.

Originally posted by prozak
Right and wrong are definitions only the truly moronic need. People kill when it is convenient. And when they feel empathy for a similar creature that either benefits or is innocuous to them, they have no desire to kill it.

I would like most of the people here dead, along with most of the people on earth. We're overpopulated. More trees!

I'll second that.
People and animals....

People are much much worse than animals, yet they multiply in vast numbers, consume resources and destroy everything on their way simply to survive and multiply once again. Just like pests...

The whole population was bred for a single purpose.

You will be conumed like you consume the animals.

The big feast is coming. You just eat mate and wait.

We fear our own death so we form sort of a pact not to do so and to punish those who do. Thus you protect yourself.

I would think the answer would be obvious too O, but i guess it's not for some people.

Maybe the people who know it already just want to see how long this will go on? or just feel too embarrassed to say anything since no one has caught it yet.

But the most basic and simplest answer is the golden rule. Dont do something to others you dont want done to you. Everyone is supposed to learn this very early as a little kid. Emotions about losing someone shouldnt make you not want to kill, but because it's just plain obvious when you think about it.

It's like John Locke's state of nature. Reason tells you the golden rule. But of course there are some who dont listen to reason, and do things because they really want to, or they think they can get away with it, or something like that. Most likely because they havent learned to be reasonable very well. Which seems to be the case almost everywhere in modern society.


On the idea mentioned before, that nature gives us consciousness. That's a very interesting thought. Since humans or our lower species were becoming so smart and learning how to use tools and make fire and all, it would be just natural that we would develop consciousness to understand what we are doing, and reason, and make morals for ourselves.

Hopefully in that idea, once we get to some stage we will develop some higher level of consciousness to understand what we're doing and realize we're destroying our places to live and all that good stuff. Just hope it doesnt come too late.

In the Shremad Bhagwad Gita, Vishnu's ninth Avatar Krishna says,

"If by killing one man you can save an entire family that killing is a righteos act. If by killing one family you save an entire village that killing is a righteous act. If by killing one village you can save an entire nation then that killing is a righteous act. And finally if by killing an entire nation you can save the entire world that killing is entirely righteous and good."

Killing for selfish and evil purposes is inherently bad. The killings that we witness daily in this society are predominately done with evil intentions. So no, killing is not always bad but the majority of killings are.

demo

if it is that bad use a gun